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Post by ajk on Jun 4, 2017 0:12:46 GMT -5
Oh dear. It's run off the rails again. Great start, went to pieces, rallied way back up, and now this.
So here's my question: Are they trying to emulate Downton Abbey? I never saw that show; did any of you guys watch it? I don't know if it ever made it to Korea or if it was popular there, but the way this episode was hard-selling the whole Wola/KJ story alongside the more important stuff, there has to be a larger goal here. These producers and writers, based on the high points we've seen so far, they're capable of great work and obviously aren't foolish people. What's going on?
The sad part of it is that there's some very sincere pain and heartfelt emotion going on in the middle of it. Songi, you have to feel for her being pushed into an arranged marriage she doesn't want any part of. Yes it was how things were done back then but you can imagine how many people were made miserable because of it. The kind of person she is, totally understandable that she'd want to run away with some mysterious stranger. But the psycho-Chunsim angle, why are they making this so important? It just comes off like a weird parody in the middle of everything else. When that stooge Gyeonga is telling his plan, the creepy horror music in the background, like some villain is planning mass murder...and then the swell of emotional music when Chunsim gave Yangbaek that ring...Who do they think is buying this being intense character drama? Such a huge unexplainable disconnect. I don't get it.
Actually there was some real good stuff at the start of the episode. I love when a scene gets extended in flashback and surprises us. We didn't know before why Choe Chunmyong and Yi Jangyong went from being moments from execution to ending up on Choe U's high council. So now we know and it was a great scene. Pretty standard stuff for a historical, the preaching about revering the people, but it was well done.
And then the pride KJ showed in being Choe U's attendant, it was very moving. So far KJ is a completely different lead character from what we're used to. He's very happy with his station in life right now and there's no foreshadowing of him becoming anything more than he is. He's just a regular guy doing his job and you can't help but like him.
"Choong!" How do they all know when to say it at exactly the same time? Did The Borg get them?
To Chunsim: "You seem busy these days." Sure, Songi...but you don't. Do you ever do anything besides paint and sew?
"Yunsim, get Chunsim some water." No, get her some antipsychotic meds. Stat!
How many times have I complained about some important person in one of these shows traveling around with little or no security? And I groused about it here too...until it became clear that Choe U set it up that way. Psyche! But how did those assassins not see the guy standing there quivering up on the tall guard post? That was dumb.
All that aside, it did seem fitting that Choe U would dispose of Kim after using him. Nice story idea.
The rest of you can descend on me like wild hyenas and tear me to shreds...but I'm happy for Wola. Growing up an orphan working for a bunch of old monks, and now some elders are showing her kindness and giving her a nice wedding. Good for her.
That is, if somebody doesn't kill her or kidnap her in the next episode. I don't suppose this going away quickly, is it. Sigh....
p.s. Please give Mrs. Choe's "Head Lady" a name already.
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Post by jewel on Jun 5, 2017 21:39:09 GMT -5
1) So here's my question: Are they trying to emulate Downton Abbey? I never saw that show; did any of you guys watch it? 2) Songi, you have to feel for her being pushed into an arranged marriage she doesn't want any part of. Yes it was how things were done back then but you can imagine how many people were made miserable because of it. 3) But the psycho-Chunsim angle, why are they making this so important? It just comes off like a weird parody in the middle of everything else. 4) When that stooge Gyeonga is telling his plan, the creepy horror music in the background, like some villain is planning mass murder... 5) Actually there was some real good stuff at the start of the episode. I love when a scene gets extended in flashback and surprises us. We didn't know before why Choe Chunmyong and Yi Jangyong went from being moments from execution to ending up on Choe U's high council. So now we know and it was a great scene. 6) And then the pride KJ showed in being Choe U's attendant, it was very moving. 7) "Yunsim, get Chunsim some water." No, get her some antipsychotic meds. Stat! 8) But how did those assassins not see the guy standing there quivering up on the tall guard post? That was dumb. 9) All that aside, it did seem fitting that Choe U would dispose of Kim after using him. Nice story idea. 10) The rest of you can descend on me like wild hyenas and tear me to shreds...but I'm happy for Wola. 1) Why do you think they're emulating Downton Abbey if you never saw the series? I watched (or should I say lived) it up to season 3 and then had to give up cuz it started really going downhill fast and I didn't want the first 3 seasons ruined in my memory. This was before I discovered K drama and it was one of the best things I watched in a long while. My husband was really into it too. (He stuck it out through all the seasons and really regretted it - he said it got pretty bad and said they could've learned a lesson or two from K dramas about when to end a story.) *******spolier alert******* When Matthew died I cried so hard my hubby was afraid the neighbors heard me. I mean I was bawling. His death really broke my heart.***** This episode was nothing like DA. Except for the beginning, like you said, which was good, the rest was really pretty bad. I'm starting to understand why some of you guys are so against romance in serious historicals. 2) I do understand her suffering, but still I think someone in her position should have known all her life that her marriage was going to be a marriage of power and politics, not a personal act. I can't imagine someone in her position would be willing to run away with a slave. Just sounds too far-fetched. It's not like her father is trying to marry her off to a octogenarian with a hunchback. So what if Kim Yak Sun is mild-mannered and soft-spoken and all that. It could be much worse. 3) Had a hard time preventing my eyeballs from rolling back completely to the back of my head. 4) I can sort of understand (just tiny bit) why Chunsim is doing what she's doing (cuz she's lost it over Yang Baek) but what is that guy's reason for going along with her? He has nothing to gain if he succeeds and everything to lose if he gets caught. Just made no sense to me. 5) I enjoyed this flashback as well. I always love it when enemies are made into friends. 6) It was moving... and yet I found myself cringing just a little bit. Maybe it was slightly overdone? Dunno. 7) lol - she never gets her the water either. 8) How do you know they didn't see him? Maybe they did but didn't care cuz he wasn't their target. He was pretty far away though, wasn't he? 9) Hmm it may be fitting but I didn't agree with the method at all. I thought it was underhanded and cowardly. Why couldn't he have just announced to him that he deserved death for playing one side off the other for personal gain? Why reward him with a promotion and all that and then have him assassinated? I thought it was unnecessarily cruel. 10) When you put it like that, I'll pass (I absolutely hate hyenas). She didn't grate on my nerves too too much in this episode. Maybe I was too busy hating on Chunsim. Geez, does she have no pride???
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Post by sageuk on Jun 5, 2017 23:35:36 GMT -5
Writer, stop writing romances. You ain't good at them.
These kind of plotlines are like those sidedishes in main courses you don't like eating but they serve anyway.
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Post by ajk on Jun 6, 2017 1:58:10 GMT -5
Yeah and some of them turn into awfully large side dishes. Pass the antacid please!
1) I didn't watch it but I know what the premise was so it seemed a fair question. Actually my first thought was "Upstairs, Downstairs" but that was quite a while ago. Stories about a bigshot family and stories about their servants.
2) Oh absolutely she saw it coming; I'm just saying someone with her nature isn't going to accept it and I don't blame her for resisting. Frankly I doubt she really thinks deep down that running away with KJ is even plausible; she's just fascinated with him right now and doesn't know what else to do. (Not to mention that daddy would have KJ executed!) Can you imagine her trying to survive out in the countryside on her own? Daddy should send her away for a while and she'd probably come back begging to marry Yakson.
4) Gyeonga is helping Chunsim because he wants to hurt KJ so KJ doesn't overshadow Yangbaek. He was one of the two goofball subordinates who were trying to fill Yangbaek's head full of jealous poison in that scene in the previous episode. But yes it's silly.
8) They'd have killed the guy if they had seen him; absolutely no witnesses allowed. Maybe you're right, maybe he was far enough away that he wasn't clearly visible. Either way, no question we haven't seen the last of that guy; he survived for a reason.
9) Purely me speculating but probably Choe U didn't want to be known for executing a guy after the guy had helped Choe gain power and Choe named him prime minister. Wouldn't exactly help keep up employee morale. So do it quietly. Choe really did have to be rid of the guy; Kim was such a spineless schemer and would never be trustworthy.
10) So not only do you not like heads in a box but you're also anti-hyena? The things we learn about people here.
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Post by jewel on Jun 7, 2017 20:06:43 GMT -5
These kind of plotlines are like those sidedishes in main courses you don't like eating but they serve anyway. I love side dishes. Everyone gives me the pickles and the cole slaw. And I'm the only one sitting at the restaurant nibbling on the rose-shaped carrot. For people who don't like side dishes - I think they insist on giving them to you cuz only when you have something you don't want next to something you want, do you truly appreciate what you want. You know - unhappiness to know happiness, pain to know pleasure, and so on. Maybe that's the philosophy God of War writer is following -- lol.
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Post by jewel on Jun 7, 2017 20:24:15 GMT -5
1) Can you imagine her trying to survive out in the countryside on her own? Daddy should send her away for a while and she'd probably come back begging to marry Yakson. 2) Gyeonga is helping Chunsim because he wants to hurt KJ so KJ doesn't overshadow Yangbaek. He was one of the two goofball subordinates who were trying to fill Yangbaek's head full of jealous poison in that scene in the previous episode. But yes it's silly. 3) They'd have killed the guy if they had seen him; absolutely no witnesses allowed. Maybe you're right, maybe he was far enough away that he wasn't clearly visible. Either way, no question we haven't seen the last of that guy; he survived for a reason. 4) Purely me speculating but probably Choe U didn't want to be known for executing a guy after the guy had helped Choe gain power and Choe named him prime minister. Wouldn't exactly help keep up employee morale. So do it quietly. 5) Choe really did have to be rid of the guy; Kim was such a spineless schemer and would never be trustworthy. 6) So not only do you not like heads in a box but you're also anti-hyena? The things we learn about people here. I read this book long long ago and I wish to God I could remember the title or the author but I just can't. And the funny thing is I think about that book every once in a while. The story really touched me and I want to read it again. It's a historical novel set in the medieval times. This girl's father tries to force her to marry this really old, vicious, wealthy land owner to further his own ambition, but the girl refuses to. He locks her up in a shed of sorts and starves her and beats her to make her obey. But before she's forced to obey to stay alive, a war breaks out. It was very moving and very sad, I remember. Sorry ry for the digression. 2) Oh I know exactly who he is. Very weak motive... 3) Ah, very interesting... 4) Very good point, hadn't thought of that. 5) Whole-heartedly agree on this. 6) lol - I saw this special on hyenas long ago on some animal channel and I'll never forget it. These animals are just as despicable in characters as in looks. Did you know the female hyenas usually give birth in pairs? And when these baby hyenas are born (I mean like coming out of the mother's womb) they come out fighting each other. And the narrator said if the season is unusually harsh the mother hyena will just let the new-born siblings fight till one kills the other. That way she has one mouth less to feed. If it's a good season she half-heartedly stops the fight. Can you beat that? Ever since that program I've been repulsed by those nasty animals.
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Post by ajk on Jun 7, 2017 22:30:07 GMT -5
No apology necessary; understandable that a story like that would stick with you. There are places you can go online to ask for help identifying a book. Do you remember any more details about it? Maybe I can help.
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Post by jewel on Jun 7, 2017 23:25:51 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the author was British and she had written other books. Also pretty sure the title was the girl's name and that it started with an M. Unfortunately that'll all I remember.
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Post by jewel on Jun 14, 2017 0:58:18 GMT -5
Also, I was 15 or 16 when I read it so I'm thinking it's a young adult book, since that's mostly what I read at that age...
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Post by MTR on Jun 14, 2017 13:11:17 GMT -5
Sounds like a great book Jewel, i love Brit Medieval warfare and history its hard to beat,psychotic ego maniacal rulers, treacherous siblings,
Richard II bullied child to preening despot .
Henry IVth treacherous cousin hated by all.
Henry Vth Psychotic despot .
Henry VIth so weak he caused a civil war.
Edward IVth "The Sunne Of York" who threw it all away for a commoner
Richard III Valiant younger brother, demonized by The Tudors
Henry VIIth paranoid miser .
Whats not to love .
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Post by jewel on Jun 14, 2017 16:04:15 GMT -5
Wow, Mtr, awesome list. I can't get enough of Brit history. One of my faves is King Harold, the last Anglo-Saxon king who fought against William the Conqueror. I read a book on him long ago (again I don't remember the title or the author *rolling eyes at myself*) but I do remember crying and crying unconsolably cause he dies in the end. I think he survives through this particular warfare and then as he's standing in the battlefield assessing all the deaths and injuries around him, he gets hit in the eye by a stray arrow which kills him. It was one of the saddest things I ever read. Ever since that book, I've always had a soft spot for him. And I love the King Arthur legend, too.
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