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Post by ajk on Mar 11, 2017 15:58:17 GMT -5
My favorite scenes in this episode were the ones with Choe Chungheon. Well written and acted and some excellent music in the background too. The father/son conversation was very good, and the tension over General Jeong's fate certainly was dramatic. The guy playing Choe is doing a good job so far. Also liked the sequences in the prison cell and then later pushing the corpse cart when Musang was struggling with whether or not to enter the tournament. They way they showed what was going through Musang's mind, weighing all of the pressures and conflicts, that was well done. The only scene I didn't like was the opening scene on the rickety bridge. It was stupid. No way would that dirtbag guard stand on the thing himself when it's falling apart like that. And even if they're slaves, sending them to near-certain death is a waste of labor and nobody would do that. It was a dumb scene played up for drama. "That Choe Yangbaek gives me the vapors. What a man!" Cracked me up...but okay now we know why the young attendant is all sweet on him; he's the best fighter. Which reminds me...my favorite character so far is the older woman slave who's looking after Wola and the other girls. The den mother. She's good people; hope we don't lose track of her. That dinner scene with Choe U, late in the episode when they were discussing strategy, something must have been lost in the translation there. It was hard to follow. This game we're apparently going to be seeing in the upcoming tournament, here's the narration that described it for anybody who wants to read it again: A form of polo using a long-handled mallet to drive a ball into the opponent's goal. Originating in Persia, it spread to India, China and Koryo. The teams are divided into Riders and Runners. In Koryo, especially during the Choe regime, they favored Riders. Records indicate the games were used to recruit to the military and court postings. It is impossible to overstate the violence and danger of the games.
Kind of a sketchy description, but if we're going to see it being played then that will clear everything up. Question for truth or whoever: The government and military characters who have been introduced so far, are they real historical figures? So far the few names I've Googled have come up real but can I count on that in this series? It's sweet that the two childhood friends care so much about each other. Hope it doesn't turn it into a romantic thing later on; it's nicer the way it is. But it's MBC so I won't get my hopes up! As long as it doesn't intrude too much into the larger story...and the balance was good enough in this episode. Not really looking forward to the contrived drama of the tournament, but otherwise I'm liking the series so far. Hope everyone else is too. p.s. Speaking of Wola, does it seem a little odd to anyone else that the abbot can't get her back? He obviously has enough standing that he wasn't imprisoned or tortured with those other monks and he's still a free man. You'd think he could certainly ask for his cook back.
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Post by truth on Mar 11, 2017 17:39:56 GMT -5
Which reminds me...my favorite character so far is the older woman slave who's looking after Wola and the other girls. The den mother. She's good people; hope we don't lose track of her. This game we're apparently going to be seeing in the upcoming tournament, here's the narration that described it for anybody who wants to read it again: A form of polo using a long-handled mallet to drive a ball into the opponent's goal. Originating in Persia, it spread to India, China and Koryo. The teams are divided into Riders and Runners. In Koryo, especially during the Choe regime, they favored Riders. Records indicate the games were used to recruit to the military and court postings. It is impossible to overstate the violence and danger of the games.
Kind of a sketchy description, but if we're going to see it being played then that will clear everything up. Question for truth or whoever: The government and military characters who have been introduced so far, are they real historical figures? So far the few names I've Googled have come up real but can I count on that in this series? 1) Are you talking about Gannan or someone else? 2) The narration is false. People did get injured in the game just like any sports, but it wasn't "violent." 3) Most of the government and military characters in this drama are real people.
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Post by jewel on Mar 11, 2017 18:14:29 GMT -5
1) "That Choe Yangbaek gives me the vapors. What a man!" Cracked me up...but okay now we know why the young attendant is all sweet on him; he's the best fighter. 2) That dinner scene with Choe U, late in the episode when they were discussing strategy, something must have been lost in the translation there. It was hard to follow. 3) Not really looking forward to the contrived drama of the tournament, but otherwise I'm liking the series so far. Hope everyone else is too. 4) p.s. Speaking of Wola, does it seem a little odd to anyone else that the abbot can't get her back? 1) What she actually says is, "That's why our Jong Yi is so crazy about that Choe Yang Baek, he's so cool. If the other girls were here they'd been wild." The translation is really bad, I noticed again. I especially hate the way the subtitles don't use full sentences, as if these characters don't have complete thoughts or something. And we can't really jump to the conclusion that the only reason that girl likes him is because he's the best fighter. I mean I'm sure that's part of it but even without that fact he is pretty attractive - in looks but also in his dignified demeanor. 2) Do you want me to translate that scene for you word for word? Let me know and I will. 3) I'm actually looking forward to it, if it's not too violent. One of my fave movies is Gladiator. I'm enjoying this drama too, so far. 4) But does the Abbot even know where she is? Almost forgot to ask - so this Overlord is the Prime Minister? What is he the Prime Minister of? The whole country? So is he sort of like the King? He hands down all his assets and power to a selected heir?
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Post by sageuk on Mar 11, 2017 18:19:01 GMT -5
Choe Chung-heon is a delight to watch and listen.
Also, there's something that should be noted in the scene with him and General Jeong that they refer to the drinks as soju. Its not something many Koreans would notice, but soju wouldn't come to be until the Mongols occupied Korea. It was originally a Persian drink called Arak, which the Mongols later introduced to the Koreans (the Mongols have attacked the Middle East). It probably wouldn't have been soju had this conversation taken place, but something else.
The narration also points out gyeokgu originated in Persia as well, but spread towards the east. I find it interesting how aspects of Korean culture owes to Persia, despite the two nations being incredibly far apart (though it is said the Arabs traded with Goryeo, through the Silk Road to even further east)
Come to think of it, I just remembered something about the novel, The Kite Runner, has kite fighting. That book took place in Afghanistan. My dad expressed surprise that such a sport was present in Afghanistan, saying that kite fighting was a Korean sport. Hmmmmm.....
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Post by truth on Mar 11, 2017 18:37:12 GMT -5
I find it interesting how aspects of Korean culture owes to Persia, despite the two nations being incredibly far apart (though it is said the Arabs traded with Goryeo, through the Silk Road to even further east) The trade with the Arabs goes back all the way to Shilla. Some of the Arab traders even ended up permanently staying in Shilla. The trade continued up until early Joseon dynasty and settlements of Arab traders continued until early Joseon as well. There is a record about Muslims reciting the Quran during Sejong's assembly.
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Post by ajk on Mar 12, 2017 2:00:56 GMT -5
Gannan, yeah...so I didn't even look at my own character roster. Ugh! Forgot they gave us her name in the previous episode. Thanks, truth...and it's good to know that these characters are at least based on real people. Very happy to hear that.
jewel I didn't know you spoke Korean! Thank you for the nice offer...That particular scene, I don't think it was all that important. But down the road there may well be something more important that isn't subbed well so I'll take you up on it then. Totally jealous that you don't need the subs. Are you Korean or did you just study the language?
And you're right, maybe there's more to the girl being sweet on Yangbaek; I just kinda got the sports-hero vibe when we learned he was the champion fighter. Especially with the age difference. A few of the Blackhawks players get that kind of reaction from girls that age here in Chicago.
The overlord--yes Choe Chungheon holds the position of prime minister of the country. Same guy. He's not the king, but he's the guy who holds all of the real power. Remember this drama takes place during the long period when military men were the real rulers of the country; they called all the shots. Choe was one of them. There was still a royal family and there were still kings, but they were powerless and the military rulers decided who would be the king. So what's shaping up here is, which of the two sons will step into their father's position and hold all of the real power. (I don't know if he'll end up having much of a say on that, from the way that two rival factions are forming...it could get real ugly.)
sageuk thanks for the good info. And the point truth made about Shillan/Arab trade, we saw a little of that in the Queen Seonduk series.
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episode 3
Mar 12, 2017 10:00:48 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by truth on Mar 12, 2017 10:00:48 GMT -5
Gannan, yeah...so I didn't even look at my own character roster. Ugh! Forgot they gave us her name in the previous episode. Thanks, truth...and it's good to know that these characters are at least based on real people. Very happy to hear that. The overlord--yes Choe Chungheon holds the position of prime minister of the country. Same guy. He's not the king, but he's the guy who holds all of the real power. Remember this drama takes place during the long period when military men were the real rulers of the country; they called all the shots. Choe was one of them. There was still a royal family and there were still kings, but they were powerless and the military rulers decided who would be the king. 1) If it's Gannan, the actress was my uncle's girlfriend about 20 years ago lol. 2) It is assumed that this is what Lee Seonggye would've become and be contented with if he didn't have Jeong Dojeon.
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Post by sageuk on Mar 12, 2017 13:26:46 GMT -5
Speaking of the military ruling through monarchs as figureheads, the coats of the high ranking military officials make me think of the haori coats the samurai wore. The costume designers must have had the Japanese bakufu in mind, since feudal Japan has emperors as figureheads with samurai running the government.
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Post by jewel on Mar 12, 2017 14:09:35 GMT -5
1) Totally jealous that you don't need the subs. Are you Korean or did you just study the language? 2) A few of the Blackhawks players get that kind of reaction from girls that age here in Chicago. 1) I still have the subtitles on tho cuz sometimes (especially historicals) I do need help. Everyday conversation I'm usually fine with. Yes, I'm Korean but it's thanks to my mom that I know Korean this well. When we were growing up my mom refused to talk to my brothers and me unless we spoke to her in Korean. She literally would not answer us if we called her "Mom" ~ we had to call her "Um-ma". 2) Oh yeah, when I was in middle school I had a massive crush on Brian Leetch of the Rangers and he was like twenty years older than me. And my all time favorite actor is (and has been) Harrison Ford (since I was like ten) and he's like forty years older than me. Age knows no bounds when it comes to girl-crush.
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Post by jewel on Mar 12, 2017 14:15:00 GMT -5
Come to think of it, I just remembered something about the novel, The Kite Runner, has kite fighting. That book took place in Afghanistan. My dad expressed surprise that such a sport was present in Afghanistan, saying that kite fighting was a Korean sport. Hmmmmm..... Ohmgod, this book made me cry so much...
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Post by mugwump on Mar 12, 2017 18:03:26 GMT -5
My favorite scenes in this episode were the ones with Choe Chungheon. Well written and acted and some excellent music in the background too. The father/son conversation was very good, and the tension over General Jeong's fate certainly was dramatic. The guy playing Choe is doing a good job so far. Also liked the sequences in the prison cell and then later pushing the corpse cart when Musang was struggling with whether or not to enter the tournament. They way they showed what was going through Musang's mind, weighing all of the pressures and conflicts, that was well done. I really liked CCH in this show. His scenes are very well written and played.
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Post by truth on Mar 12, 2017 20:16:33 GMT -5
sageuk thanks for the good info. And the point truth made about Shillan/Arab trade... I found an interesting ancient writing from the era. Direct contact between Muslims and Koreans on the Korean Peninsula is described in 23 Islamic sources written between the ninth and sixteenth centuries. These documents include writings from eighteen Muslim scholars, including Ibn Khurdadhbih, Sulaiman al-Tajir, Mas‘udi, and others. Ibn Khurdadhbih was the first Arab scholar who chronicled Muslim settlement in Korea during the Unified Silla era (661-935): ... Silla is located to the extreme end of China and as a white race, Silla people are descendants of Noah’s son Japhet and Japhet’s son Amur...Silla is a country abounding in gold. Muslims who advanced there, captivated by its congenial surroundings, tend to settle there for good and do not think of leaving the place. (845 AD)
www.mei.edu/content/1500-years-contact-between-korea-and-middle-east
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Post by MTR on Mar 16, 2017 21:22:52 GMT -5
Speaking of the military ruling through monarchs as figureheads, the coats of the high ranking military officials make me think of the haori coats the samurai wore. The costume designers must have had the Japanese bakufu in mind, since feudal Japan has emperors as figureheads with samurai running the government. Not far off really Sageuk ,as the military revolts against the aristocracy took place in the very same year in both Goryeo and Japan,of course this has nothing to do with haori's, just find it funny the two rebellions took place in the same year and against the same ruling class.
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Post by truth on Mar 16, 2017 21:43:12 GMT -5
Speaking of the military ruling through monarchs as figureheads, the coats of the high ranking military officials make me think of the haori coats the samurai wore. The costume designers must have had the Japanese bakufu in mind, since feudal Japan has emperors as figureheads with samurai running the government. Not far off really Sageuk ,as the military revolts against the aristocracy took place in the very same year in both Goryeo and Japan,of course this has nothing to do with haori's, just find it funny the two rebellions took place in the same year and against the same ruling class. Who knows how Korean history would've been if the Mongols never invaded? Koryo dynasty might have continued until today with the Wang dynasty figurehead and a prime minister just like Japan. Wangs even have a mythical background story just like the Japanese emperor.
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Post by ajk on Mar 17, 2017 0:25:45 GMT -5
1) If it's Gannan, the actress was my uncle's girlfriend about 20 years ago lol. Yow-wee can he introduce me to her? Looked her up online and she's real pretty, and the right age too. Please tell me she wasn't as dumb as a box of rocks...or maybe I should just be quiet before I get into trouble! 1) I still have the subtitles on tho cuz sometimes (especially historicals) I do need help. Everyday conversation I'm usually fine with. Yes, I'm Korean but it's thanks to my mom that I know Korean this well. When we were growing up my mom refused to talk to my brothers and me unless we spoke to her in Korean. She literally would not answer us if we called her "Mom" ~ we had to call her "Um-ma". Your mom did you a great favor; that's when languages stick in the brain. Lucky you for knowing it. I really liked CCH in this show. His scenes are very well written and played. Yeah so far the actor really seems to have created a convincing character--getting frail and old but still able to drop the hammer and scare the crap out of everybody like he did with General Jeong. Very impressive work. Thanks truth, sageuk and MTR for the good info about trade and armor. Really appreciate your sharing your knowledge.
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