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Post by MTR on Dec 23, 2009 15:47:38 GMT -5
As this has finished than i would highly recommend for those who have not seen it "YI SAN " Its from the same team that did Seondeok ,Dae Jang Geum and Seo Don Yeo . Also on the subject of Jeon Jo there is the 07 Korean Drama 8 DAYS that plows similar turf to Conspiracy In The Court . both are on My Soju . BTW i forget her name but the next ruler after Seondeok was also a woman .
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Post by pilseung on Dec 23, 2009 15:51:16 GMT -5
Quen JINDEOK
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Post by griffin on Dec 23, 2009 21:14:52 GMT -5
As this has finished than i would highly recommend for those who have not seen it "YI SAN " Its from the same team that did Seondeok ,Dae Jang Geum and Seo Don Yeo . Also on the subject of Jeon Jo there is the 07 Korean Drama 8 DAYS that plows similar turf to Conspiracy In The Court . both are on My Soju . BTW i forget her name but the next ruler after Seondeok was also a woman . Never saw Yi San, though I'm not sure I wanna see another version of Shin Yun-bok (brief as it is). ;D POTW is good enough for me. Anyways, I couldn't even get the first ep, quite a number of vid links are broken. So I got something like 9 or 10 eps down and I saw familiar faces. Wait a min.... weren't they in DJG??? ;D It's just as well they didn't use the same group again for QSD, otherwise .... I wandered over to the NGs and laughed my head off at the outtakes. Probably may try ep 1 once they fixed the link.
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Post by mugwump on Dec 23, 2009 21:27:23 GMT -5
TOO!! MANY!! CLOSE-UP!! REACTION!! SHOTS!!
Where did all this poor camera work come from all of a sudden?
Final wrap-up: Well, well, well. I'm still not sure what to make of the last 12 episodes. For sure, the first 49 were outstanding. However, I found the manner of Mishal's demise to be a let-down. I think the show lost its focus after Mishal died. It seems like the writers just didn't know what to do with Bidam. First we had a time jump and he was portrayed as the head of the local gestapo, chipped way at his rival Yushin, enjoying being cruel and manipulative. Then he decided to give up everything for love, and suddenly Seonduk wanted his love and decided to marry him. And they both got kind of sappy. Then they were being set up as star-crossed lovers. Bidam is shown with his tragic flaw (spelled out in minute detail by Misaeng and Yeomjong) and dies trying to get back to SD (killing a lot of extras along the way). At least we were spared a contrived double death in each other's arms. Don't get me wrong, I loved Bidam's complex character, but the last episodes seemed disjointed and flip-floppy. A nice unexpected touch of the dead SD visiting the young SD. And I'm glad Yushin got a final scene with SD. He never had any trust issues, did he? Too bad we didn't get a final real fight between Bidam and Yushin. Too bad we didn't get to see more bad guys lose their heads. Speaking of bad guys, what happened to Bojong? He was not accounted for. Kind of surprising that Chunchu was mostly absent from the final episode. I was wondering, if they were going to take the show up to her death, how they would deal with Chunchu not being the next king. They got around this by not showing the succession aftermath at all. I loved all the creativity and surprises in this show and the way they hardly ever resorted to easy formulas. The quality was on such a high level with very little filler. Wonderfully imagined and well-acted characters. Good music. This show gets an A+.
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chuck
Junior Addict
Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Dec 23, 2009 23:24:22 GMT -5
TOO!! MANY!! CLOSE-UP!! REACTION!! SHOTS!! Where did all this poor camera work come from all of a sudden? Completely agree with that. It was getting embarassing. Bidam, such a tragic character. Everything Yeomjong and Mesaeng said about him was true---but I was still happy to see Yeomjong skewered. Bidam loved Deokman, but he never managed to straighten out his own character, and it cost him dearly in the end. So much potential, squandered. As for Deokman, she was too much a slave to duty, for my taste. If doing your duty means giving up all personal happiness, then there's something wrong with the duty you have chosen to accept. She sacrificed her own happiness, over and over again. And what did it get her? A life full of pain, and an early death. It's too much to ask of a human being. She should have gone off with Yushin, when she had the chance. I have not seen Yi San, but I have seen the other drama by the Dae Jang Geum team, Seodongyo. It was much better, that is to say more benevolent and with a happier outcome, than Queen Seon Duk.
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Post by griffin on Dec 24, 2009 8:18:41 GMT -5
She should have gone off with Yushin, when she had the chance. No doubt she would still have an early death but her life would definitely be happier. ;D
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Post by tinkerbell on Dec 25, 2009 17:38:51 GMT -5
I can't believe it's over. I cried my eyes out watching the last episode. Great story, acting and music. I agree mugwump. After Mishil died the drama lost direction. It was a fantastic show and then it became something completely different. Disappointing. The writers tried to please the Bidam fans by changing history. Seondeok out of the blue wanting to marry Bidam was shocking. Much of the final episodes revolved around them. The final episode was great though. Except for those few episodes, this was fantastic and I'd watch it again. One of the best endings I've ever seen. Unfortunately there's rarely a happy ending in these dramas. Thank God Yeomjong was finally exterminated like a rat. Long over due. If Bidam was so clever, why did he believe Yeomjong's lies? Shouldn't he have checked things out before revolting against SD? He was supposed to be so in love with the Queen. Anyway that's how they chose to explain Bidam's rebellion. I expected a final showdown between Yushin and Bidam but I guess that wouldn't have been tragic enough. I couldn't believe the massacre at the end by Bidam. I had to roll my eyes at him swinging his sword around slicing and dicing everyone in his path. Nobody thought to bring a bow along until the Gaya soldiers showed up with their crossbows? Although fictional, his death was intense. I didn't expect Santak to get killed. I'm glad we no longer have to hear about Miseang's 100 children or listen to his annoying voice. That goes for Hojong too. ;D The dream Deokman/ Seondeok had was quite a clever touch. I didn't see that coming. I don't know why Chunchu wasn't shown immediately before or after Queen Seondeok's death. I'm with you chuck. Deokman and Yushin should have ran away together awhile back. Chunchu could have been the King earlier than he was. History would've been changed though if the great General Yushin wasn't there to help unite the Three Kingdoms. Ah, Yushin and Alcheon loyal to the end. Yushin loved her all along which I never doubted. I loved his final moments with SD. So sad to watch her die.
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Post by alchemist091 on Dec 26, 2009 3:20:55 GMT -5
The two things that I was disapointed not to see were a fight between Bojong and Yushin because If you remember towards the beginning their was a kinda I guess rivalry over who was better and I hoped to see that during the hwarang tournament and a real fight with Bidam cause seriously that would have been great to see.
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Post by mugwump on Dec 26, 2009 12:39:30 GMT -5
A lot of the conflict in these shows arises from duty versus love, and duty almost always wins out. Deokman first pushed Yushin away because she was feeling so angry and wanting revenge for everything. Later when she was reinstated as princess, she realized what problems would arise for her if she got married and still wanted to be king herself. (The plan had been for Yushin and Cheungmyung to get married and he become next in line for succession, so there would have been factions trying to pull this off as well if he married Deokman). As Munno said, men would be falling all over themselves to get power through her. She probably also thought that she needed to keep some emotional detachment between herself and Yushin, because she knew he was the one who would lead the unification effort, her most valuable chess piece. Could you imagine if she got into a teary panic every time he went off to war? So her not getting married made sense. Still I think she made things too hard on herself by being so isolated. At the end when she asked Yushin if they could run away together, I kind of expected him to smile sadly and say, "Yes, but then who will unite the 3 Han?"
The hero and heroine in these dramas are almost always separated by some circumstance, just to make their lives miserable and give the audiences a reason to be sorry for them. This show was more contrived than DJY and Jumong, where the woman thought the man was dead and married someone else, but less contrived than EOTS, where I still don't understand why Junghwa kept rejecting Jang Bogo.
Side note: Did anyone else notice that in the preview to the last episode, it showed Yushin in his funeral garb, but there was no scene like that in the last episode? I think I noticed this a few times in other previews. Are we not seeing as much of these shows as the Koreans, or are the producers just adding deleted footage as part of the previews to keep us in suspense? Too bad we didn't get to see Yushin at her funeral.
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chuck
Junior Addict
Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Dec 26, 2009 14:09:08 GMT -5
A lot of the conflict in these shows arises from duty versus love, and duty almost always wins out. Deokman first pushed Yushin away because she was feeling so angry and wanting revenge for everything. Later when she was reinstated as princess, she realized what problems would arise for her if she got married and still wanted to be king herself. (The plan had been for Yushin and Cheungmyung to get married and he become next in line for succession, so there would have been factions trying to pull this off as well if he married Deokman). As Munno said, men would be falling all over themselves to get power through her. She probably also thought that she needed to keep some emotional detachment between herself and Yushin, because she knew he was the one who would lead the unification effort, her most valuable chess piece. Could you imagine if she got into a teary panic every time he went off to war? So her not getting married made sense. Still I think she made things too hard on herself by being so isolated. At the end when she asked Yushin if they could run away together, I kind of expected him to smile sadly and say, "Yes, but then who will unite the 3 Han?" The hero and heroine in these dramas are almost always separated by some circumstance, just to make their lives miserable and give the audiences a reason to be sorry for them. This show was more contrived than DJY and Jumong, where the woman thought the man was dead and married someone else, but less contrived than EOTS, where I still don't understand why Junghwa kept rejecting Jang Bogo. I don't have a problem with obstacles in the way of the hero and heroine---as long as they successfully overcome them in the end. I just don't like tragic endings. In the two previous dramas I've seen by Kim Yeong Hyeon, Dae Jang Geum and Seodongyo, the hero and heroine also faced seemingly impossible obstacles to getting together---but they overcame them anyway, and ended the drama together, and happy. There is a point at which you simply have to say I'm not a martyr for the rest of the world, and choose your own happiness. In DJG, Jang Geum reached that point and ran away with Sir Min. They were caught and dragged back to the palace, but they at least tried to choose their own happiness. And they still reached it in the end. When Queen Seon Duk asked Yushin at the end if he'd still run off with her, I thought it was rhetorical. She had already cast him aside for Bidam, and now that Bidam was dead, she was ready to settle for second best? That was rather insulting to Yushin. I think if Kim Yeong Hyeon had written this drama by herself, she would have managed to give it a happy ending. But she had a co-writer, and so who knows which of them wrote which parts of the drama.
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Post by mugwump on Dec 27, 2009 17:59:13 GMT -5
I’m pretty sure you won’t be seeing these awards on MBC…
Most Flexible Face – Mishil. Never before has so much been conveyed with such subtle body language. Most Entertaining Character – Mishil, of course. Second place goes to Bidam in his Psycho-Boy era. The Li Haigu Foundling Award goes to Bidam. A candidate for therapy if ever there was one. Coolest Character – Munno. We lost him too soon. Most Missed Character –Cheungmyung. Like Munno, she made her exit much too soon. The Sacrificial Lamb Award goes to Cheungmyung’s husband. His fate was sealed as soon as he was nominated to be Crown Prince. Cutest Little Nose – ChunChu. The Pepsident Award goes to Bidam for having the whitest teeth in Shilla. The Let’s Go For a Swim Award goes to Deokman for going over a cliff into a body of water 3 times and surviving. Having grown up in the dessert, she apparently didn’t know how to swim. Fortunately there was always someone else there to resuscitate her. The Pepto Bismol Award goes to Deokman for swallowing 1) a jade die, 2) a letter, and surviving. Character Most in Need of a Good Smack – Baby Face (the Hwarang who went down with Chilsuk). Second place – Santak. The Village Idiot Award goes to Hajong. Come to think of it, he could use a good smack too. The Most Superfluous Character Award goes to Yushin’s wife (I can’t even remember her name, poor woman). I believe she was in all of 4 scenes. She existed only to create drama in one episode, and eliminate Yushin from the royal marriage sweepstakes. The Spine of Jelly Award goes to King Jipyeung (sp?) He had mass and occupied space, and that was about all. The Two Left Feet Award goes to Solhwa. Not much in the dexterity or brains department, but plenty of love and loyalty. The National Geographic Award goes to Munno for putting the Korean peninsula on the map. The Bill Nye the Science Guy Award goes to Misaeng for his creative use of scientific principles in helping his sister swim to the top of the food chain. The Chulin Flip-Flop Award goes to the writers. For 40+ episodes Deokman loved Yushin, then in the final 6 it was all Bidam. Huh? Most Disappointing Death Award goes to Mishil. After 49 episodes of sparring, she goes out with neither a bang nor a whimper. Where’s the catharsis? Character with the most underused potential –Chilsuk. The Prell Award goes to ChunChu for his pretty hair. Best Beard in the Post-Mishil Era – Bojong Worst Beard – Yushin, poor guy. Bidam is a close second. The Slimeball Award goes to Yeomjong. Bidam should have killed him much sooner. The Iron Man Award goes to Yushin for all the beatings he took for the woman he loved. The See, I’m Not Such a Bad Guy After All Award goes to Seolwan for genuinely loving Mishil. The Rendezvous with Destiny Award goes to Yushin and ChunChu. Can we have a show, please, showing the unification efforts? The Incredulity Award goes to Deokman for living in the barracks with a bunch of men for umpteen years without anyone noticing she was a girl. “Hey, lets all go for a pee.” “No thanks, I’m good”. Best storyline – the solar eclipse. Worst storyline – no nominees. Most Annoying Character – no nominees. Thank goodness. Sappy Music Award – no nominees. Again, thank goodness.
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chuck
Junior Addict
Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Dec 27, 2009 20:32:26 GMT -5
While we're handing out awards:
I don't know what award she merits, but I loved the girl who played the young Deokman. She was such a bright, benevolent presence on the screen. I really wanted her to play the adult Deokman, too. And the one scene that brought tears to my eyes in the last episode was when she was hugged by the adult Deokman, who was crying. I liked the young Deokman's fighting spirit, and optimistic outlook, in stark contrast to the adult Deokman's tragic outlook, and seeming pessimistic spirit.
As for underutilized potential, I would nominate Munno. A greater fighter than Chilsuk, who was better than Bidam. And no one ever tried to recruit him back into the fight? They never even learned he was dead, did they? Bidam, too. After he became Deokman's soulmate, he lost all masculinity. Until the end, when he became himself again.
Mishil, the most admirable bad guy in a dramatic series.
The most impossible to believe transformation in a dramatic series: Godo, from bumbling moron who only thinks of food, to a responsible military officer. Just couldn't buy it.
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Post by griffin on Dec 27, 2009 23:57:40 GMT -5
[There is a point at which you simply have to say I'm not a martyr for the rest of the world, and choose your own happiness. In DJG, Jang Geum reached that point and ran away with Sir Min. They were caught and dragged back to the palace, but they at least tried to choose their own happiness. And they still reached it in the end. Huh? I thought JG decided they shouldn't be running away and they went back voluntarily??? o.O Gotta luv mugwump's awards. ;D ;D ;D
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Post by alchemist091 on Dec 28, 2009 5:19:55 GMT -5
I’m pretty sure you won’t be seeing these awards on MBC… The Li Haigu Foundling Award goes to Bidam. A candidate for therapy if ever there was one. The Incredulity Award goes to Deokman for living in the barracks with a bunch of men for umpteen years without anyone noticing she was a girl. “Hey, lets all go for a pee.” “No thanks, I’m good”. lol
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chuck
Junior Addict
Posts: 117
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Post by chuck on Dec 28, 2009 10:56:05 GMT -5
[There is a point at which you simply have to say I'm not a martyr for the rest of the world, and choose your own happiness. In DJG, Jang Geum reached that point and ran away with Sir Min. They were caught and dragged back to the palace, but they at least tried to choose their own happiness. And they still reached it in the end. Huh? I thought JG decided they shouldn't be running away and they went back voluntarily??? o.O Don't you remember them walking happily through the snow, Jang Geum riding piggy-back on Sir Min's shoulders? It was only when they were about to get on a ship, that Sir Min's commander and his troops came along and forced them to stop. At that point, to call their decision to go back "voluntary" is simply wrong. If the troops had not arrived and stopped them, they would have been gone. They were left with no choice.
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