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Post by MTR on Jun 12, 2011 16:09:32 GMT -5
Think Republicans and Democrats with Noron's being more to the right .
It was the Soron's he bought back as well as allowing commoners to take the civil exam .
Grandpop's as we all know was the son of Dong Yi who was a commoner add to the fact many thought he had poisoned his older brother to take the throne . He wrapped himself in a web of Noron's for protection and as such Noron's ruled the roost .
It would seem that his son Sado tried to break the Noron stranglehold and was put to death .
For Jeongjo the fight against the Noron's started from the day his father died as they were scared he would take revenge .
What the drama does not depict is that one of his biggest foes was his own Mother ,Though sparing her he executed many Uncles ,Cousins and his Aunt .
Not just his own father but his brothers and half brothers were executed when he was young ,
It is said that during his reign he was the constant target of various Noron backed plots many hatched by his own Mother and the Dowager .
In letting those two women live he made his biggest mistake because they pretty much took out the Yi bloodline after his death and were indirectly responsible for the decline of the Dynasty .
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Post by ohdarlin on Aug 13, 2011 1:59:27 GMT -5
Can someone explain the Norons and Sorons and why they differed? I have tried wikipedia but it left me so confused. Which political group did Jeongjo bring back and why had they been banished for 100 years which would be Sukjong's time? I read somewhere that Sukjong was trigger-happy with purging the political group when they fell out of his favor Basically, the noron and sorons differ in the way of thinking, as in the way that the king should rule the country. As we know, the authority of the Yi king was first and foremost based on the rhetoric of the ideal Confucian Kingship. Unlike the Chinese emperor (the son of heaven), been the vassal state of Ming and Qing, the Yi kings do not hold absolute authority over how to rule his country. Ministers were suppose to be loyal and serve the king, while the king was supposed to take in their advise. As such, many school of thoughts emerged, each with a different idea of how ideal Confucian kingship should be. After the fall of Ming in 1644, the Yi court was torn into two, one wants to affirm Korean loyalty to the Ming, while the other is eager to appease the Manchus. And these politically tumoil resulted in the overthrown of Prince Kwanghae and the installment of King Injo, who is pro-Ming. So during the reign of Sukchong, two major groups of thoughts emerged, contesting each other. These two camps, known as Soin and Namin respectively, held different idea of what Chu Hsi's orthodoxy should be. They also had different opinions of monarchical authority. Subsequently, Sukchong decided to restore the royal authority and power, which he saw as having been diminished. He adopted a divide-and -conquer policy and played faction against faction. As a result, there were several changes of power, and Soin finally emerged as the winner at the end of Sukchong's era. Soin was then spilt into 2 camps on the issue of Sukchong's successor. Soron supported Kyongjong and opposed Yongjo's appointment as the heir apparent during Kyongjong's reign, while the Noron pressed for the appointment. When Yongjo ascended the throne, he adopted "restoration" as the theme for his rule. He initiated the "tangpyong" (magnificent harmony) policy to promote harmony in his court. However, it was much of a failure because at the end of his reign, the court was dominated by the Noron, which had again spilit into 2 camps. Jeongjo, the grandson and the successor of Yongjo, carried on Yongjo's policy of tangpyong. As a way to diminish Noron's politcal power, he restore the Namin to power with tangpyong policy.
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Post by ohdarlin on Aug 13, 2011 2:23:25 GMT -5
Think Republicans and Democrats with Noron's being more to the right . It was the Soron's he bought back as well as allowing commoners to take the civil exam . Grandpop's as we all know was the son of Dong Yi who was a commoner add to the fact many thought he had poisoned his older brother to take the throne . He wrapped himself in a web of Noron's for protection and as such Noron's ruled the roost . It would seem that his son Sado tried to break the Noron stranglehold and was put to death . For Jeongjo the fight against the Noron's started from the day his father died as they were scared he would take revenge . What the drama does not depict is that one of his biggest foes was his own Mother ,Though sparing her he executed many Uncles ,Cousins and his Aunt . Not just his own father but his brothers and half brothers were executed when he was young , It is said that during his reign he was the constant target of various Noron backed plots many hatched by his own Mother and the Dowager . In letting those two women live he made his biggest mistake because they pretty much took out the Yi bloodline after his death and were indirectly responsible for the decline of the Dynasty . Yongjo's accusation of regicide originated with Sim Yuhyon, Kyongjong's first wife;s brother, who had attended Kyongjong's deathbed. Sim allegedly said that kyongjong had vomited bile and later his corpse looked very strange. This was taken to indicate poisoning. But the rumour was apparently false as Sim was a member of Soron and his intention was clearly to demise Yongjo's legitimacy to the throne. Sado's death was partly due to Yongjo's policy of magnificent harmony, and partly due to Yongjo's complicated personality. All this lead to Sado's mental illness and the deterioration of the father and son relationship, which ultimately left Yongjo with no choice but to put his only son to death in order to sustain the dynastic line (which was written in the veritable records). One of Jeongjo's half brother was accused of practicing catholism and put to death. Another was executed for plotting against Jeongjo. But both were executed only after Jeongjo's secession. It is certainly untrue to say that Jeongjo's mother and the Dowager (Queen chongsun) had plotted against Jeongjo. Lady Hyegyong, as can be seen from her memoir, was not in a cordial relationship with Sado, and her only duty in life was to protect her son. It is seriously impossible and not logical to say that she plotted against her own son. The accusation towards Queen Chongsun portrayed in the drama was also false. Though her father was said to be one of those responsible for Prince Sado's death,her role as an inner palace women was never significant. When she acted as the regent during Sunjo's reign, pleasant edicts were issued in Sunjo's name but unpleasant ones such as the execution of the Catholics were always issued under her own name. The real bad women that Jeongjo had to deal with were Lady Yun (One of Yongjo's concubine who is said to plot against Jeongjo), Princess Hwawan, and several ministers, whom he either banished or put to death not long after his succession to the throne.
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Post by TheBo on Aug 14, 2011 14:55:17 GMT -5
Thanks, ohdarlin, I was wondering about whether Queen Chongsun had actually plotted against Jeongjo, as I have seen two dramas now in which she did.
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Post by sageuk on Aug 15, 2011 1:31:06 GMT -5
Its been five years since ohdarlin posted, and a regular visitor of the DJG threads. Hope to see if some old posters come in, that is assuming some of them are even ALIVE
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Post by ohdarlin on Aug 15, 2011 7:16:25 GMT -5
Thanks, ohdarlin, I was wondering about whether Queen Chongsun had actually plotted against Jeongjo, as I have seen two dramas now in which she did. she certainly did not, though her family may have gained power and involved in factional conflicts with the maternal family of chongjo's mother lady hyegyong. If you have read about lady hyegyong's memoirs, you will realise that princess hwawan and her adopted son chong hugyom were indeed the master minds behind those seditious plots against chongjo. Its been five years since ohdarlin posted, and a regular visitor of the DJG threads. Hope to see if some old posters come in, that is assuming some of them are even ALIVE lol. oh yes i used to come here for those DJG discussions. I am really amused to see that some threads were still alive! I was searching for 凌虚关漫稿 (collective works of prince sado) when i come across a Dongyi thread in this forum. HAHA. What interest me was the translation of the biography of queen chongsong (which was originally writtened by me ;D). I thought the translation was quite good though it seemed to be google translated.
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Post by MTR on Aug 15, 2011 20:51:58 GMT -5
Pretty amazing stuff Myself i am a novice in K History behind yourself ,Truth and Sageuk .
Still i am curious was there not some sort of bloody purge at the beginning of Sunjo's reign ?,purge as in Jeonjo's people .
Yes forgot about the Catholic's ,
Though a novel i was using the book" Everlasting Empire" as a Historical basis as it was meant to be very accurate but guess not .
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Post by sageuk on Aug 15, 2011 23:50:12 GMT -5
Hey, in fiction you need an antagonist
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Post by ohdarlin on Aug 16, 2011 5:22:51 GMT -5
Pretty amazing stuff Myself i am a novice in K History behind yourself ,Truth and Sageuk . Still i am curious was there not some sort of bloody purge at the beginning of Sunjo's reign ?,purge as in Jeonjo's people . Yes forgot about the Catholic's , Though a novel i was using the book" Everlasting Empire" as a Historical basis as it was meant to be very accurate but guess not . Chongjo's political authority had been unstable even before the beginning of his reign, for the ground of his royal legitimacy was problematic because he was a son of a royal criminal and the successor of a filicide. He had a rather uncomfortable relationship with the Byoekpa Noron who had contributed to the death of his father Sado. When his power gradually grew, he appointed Namin officer to major posts in order to hold the Noron in check. When Chongjo's son Sunjo succeed the throne, Queen Chongsun acted as the regent. The Byoekpa faction of the Noron, which Queen Chongsun's maternal family belonged, reversed many of CHOngjo's reforms and carried out the worst persecution of the CHoson Catholics. The event, known as Shinyu Bakhae (신유박해, 辛酉迫害) was targetted at eliminating the Shipa faction of the Noron and the Namin. I guess this is the purge that you are talking about. What is this Everlasting Empire about?
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shiku
Junior Addict
Posts: 159
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Post by shiku on Aug 16, 2011 20:19:27 GMT -5
Very Interesting stuff. Thank you everyone especially Ohdarlin for clearing up my confusion about the various political groups. Much appreciated
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Post by MTR on Aug 16, 2011 20:39:53 GMT -5
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Post by ohdarlin on Aug 16, 2011 21:59:12 GMT -5
thanks DYC. I have checked out the book on amazon! 80 USD omg! Its more of a fictional story rather than historical studies. Historians themselves could never come to a definite conclusion on the the issue on the death of Chongjo, just like many other mysteries in history. Is there any videos on youtube that i can watch the movie?
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Post by MTR on Aug 17, 2011 14:13:51 GMT -5
yes i got the book on a Library Loan only .
Ill find a site where people can watch it ,i have seen them before
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Post by MTR on Aug 18, 2011 22:10:54 GMT -5
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Post by ohdarlin on Sept 1, 2011 6:34:57 GMT -5
thanks DYC. But i cant watch the film. The video refuse to load. Is it only my problem?
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