|
Post by TheBo on Mar 13, 2011 21:22:15 GMT -5
This spoiler thread can contain anything about Painter of Wind you wish to discuss, or anything about the press. You can post links to articles without spoiler warnings.
1) Please be polite, as usual
2) Please do not use "spoiler space"
3) This thread is moderated--not for spoilers, only to make sure things don't get out of hand, emotionally shall we say. If you notice anyone being rude or annoying or racist or any of those unpleasant things, you can say something if you feel you can be restrained about it (after all, you may just have misunderstood). Be careful how you phrase your inquiry--think to yourself, How would I feel if someone said this to me? Or, if you are shy or too angry, please notify a mod (preferably one listed for this forum, but any mod is fine) by sending him or her a PM.
|
|
|
Post by sageuk on Mar 18, 2011 19:56:07 GMT -5
I love how it opens with "this is a fictional historical drama", acknowledging that its not accurate. Praise the writers for being humble.
Kim Yoo Jung plays the younger version of the main character. Huh. These days she's in a lot of roles-Dong Yi, Gumiho, Road No. 1 (god that show hurts me), Iljimae, Cain and Abel, Flames of Ambition, Evasive Inquiry Agency, Belle, Thank You Life. I've also seen in the movie The Chaser. Wow. She's a talented actress. Here's hope to a good career for her.
|
|
|
Post by TheBo on Mar 30, 2011 11:50:37 GMT -5
I love how it opens with "this is a fictional historical drama", acknowledging that its not accurate. Praise the writers for being humble. Kim Yoo Jung plays the younger version of the main character. Huh. These days she's in a lot of roles-Dong Yi, Gumiho, Road No. 1 (god that show hurts me), Iljimae, Cain and Abel, Flames of Ambition, Evasive Inquiry Agency, Belle, Thank You Life. I've also seen in the movie The Chaser. Wow. She's a talented actress. Here's hope to a good career for her. Sageuk! Why is this in the spoiler thread? It's not a spoiler at all! You KNOW we have a dearth of conversation out there! LOL. Bo
|
|
|
Post by griffin on Apr 19, 2011 9:13:37 GMT -5
Oh LOL. I didn't know some of you are watching this. I viewed this in 2009, bought the dvd after the 1st ep because I became too impatient to wait and was inspired to write a fanfic of 5 stories spanning over a 100 chapters on it, currently on the 6th. The stories are residing in one of MGY's fan forum, Chinese btw, but I wrote the fanfics in Eng. Debates there are on switching SYB's gender on the author's part in the book but nevertheless, it's intriguing. The lead actors aren't bad, I like MGY's ability to carry off the role. I knew straight off her char is a girl because of the awful Chinese dub (too girlish and hysterical, I HATE dubs ) but in MGY's own voice, she doesn't sound like one; just a brash young lad. Additionally, MGY (Shin Yun-bok) and MCW (Jeong-hyang) were voted best drama couple of 2008. LOL. Fans referred to them as 5 coins or Wuniang. I saw a bit of the awards presentation and the fans just couldn't resist teasing the two. "Painter!" The ending motivated me to write; a first for me. This is the first time I came to know of MGY; she is good. Her gender bend excels another actress whose forte is also this genre in the 50s - 60s. She's very famous in the HK, Taiwan entertainment circle and others. Precisely because she's very convincing as a guy. Perhaps some of you might have heard of it; the classic Shaw movie Butterfly Lovers. I read that people went nuts over this movie back then. I've viewed it as a kid and then again later as an adult; the charm is still there. Anyways, there is chemistry among the lead actors, that's what important. Too, the story isn't bad though I think it lost a bit of steam at the end. There was some disagreement over the last ep and the producer actually edited / rewrote it. Btw, there's no such punishment as crushing of hands. And there're errors, historically .. like how father and son cannot be both employed in the government (this being the theory why SYB chose to wander off on his own) and that Danwon's mentor / teacher didn't die so early or that the real SYB was rather forward (so to speak) in his paintings but who cares? P.S. I didn't like the movie Mindo or Portrait of a Beauty btw. I find it horrid. Not because of the xxx scenes but how the chars were treated. The story and pacing were choppy. The lead actress was unconvincing in her portrayal. No one would have mistaken her for a guy. It's also because of this drama that I just cannot view any other gender bend roles without a critical eye. Hence, that sageuk about the royal Confucian academy, I didn't like it much. Of course, it's a much different setting, comedic, etc but still, I cannot help but compare. Known drama bloopers : #1 : While doing the scene at the well, where Danwon found Yun-bok, MGY fell 6 ft into the well after one of the set staff released the rope too soon. The producer elected to continue filming despite the possibility that she had a sprained ankle. #2 : PSY (Danwon) accidentally broke MGY's nose when he turned too abruptly when they were crossing the narrow bridge across the pond. His elbow knocked into her face. She landed in hospital and took a week off. The eps due to air that week were replaced. #3 : MCW (Jeong-hyang) couldn't stop sniffling because she had a cold and had to go to hospital to receive a shot to boost her up. Candid comments : MCW was uncomfortable doing the undress-for-SYB scene because MGY was just too good in her acting - she felt as if there was a real SYB with her.
|
|
|
Post by TheBo on Apr 19, 2011 10:23:15 GMT -5
Geez! Sounds like a minefield for poor MGY! LOL.
I agree, she did a good job with the gender bending, much more convincing than any I've seen in other Korean shows (particularly, He's Beautiful). The type of dubbing you mention, where no attention is paid to the type of voice being dubbed out, is particularly irritating.
I looked for Butterfly Lovers; you seemed to be talking about an old, old movie, but it seemed to be made in 2008! Then I looked further and saw the 2008 movie was based on Butterfly Lovers (1962??), starring Ivy Ling Po. Is Ms Po the person you are talking about? She seems to have played the male role, however, not the female role. So there were two women in the main roles, one playing a man and one playing a woman pretending to be a man? Complicated--if I have that right.
Ms Po has a HUGE resume. She must be an amazing person.
Bo
|
|
|
Post by griffin on Apr 19, 2011 11:21:08 GMT -5
True, poor MGY. I know she did another sageuk, but she only appeared as the young Empress MyeongSeong. I forgot the title, I think it's Last Empire or something. She was much younger then, in her teens. Thus far, I didn't like her recent roles but I guess that's also because I don't like contemporary dramas. I tried but it's really too out for me so despite her talents, I didn't watch them. There will be no further work for her in dramas currently, she's resuming her final year in the university for 2011. I suppose she'll do something next year. I know MCW (Jeong-hyang) is going to appear in a action saguek, I think it's a movie. POTW was her first foray into acting and she's fortunate it went off so well. Yes, Ms Po is the actress I was talking about. She started off as child actress and conditions back then were not as good as today. Too, her family was problematic (she talked about it, anyone who heard of her knew it). I'm the one who started the wiki on her actually. Lol, then the others picked it up there after. I also did a translation of a Chinese article on her childhood days. Butterfly Lovers or Love Eterne (1962) was her breakthrough. This movie is operatic as in Chinese Wayang style / opera but it wasn't as lengthy as a opera would be. From this, she went on to play more gender bend roles intermixed with the regular roles. Gender bend is not unique in Asian culture, it's prevalent in Chinese opera. However, to find the right person with the right combo / chemistry on screen is hard. As with POTW, Love Eterne had the right elements. Her oposite lead, Betty Loh Ti, only did this one movie with Ms Po. It was unfortunate because they did have the right mesh but due to disagreement with the management, BLT left the company. If she had not, undoubtedly, the company would cash in on this at that time by making more movies with the 2 of them. The char she played is a guy. It's not a woman pretending to be a man. To judge Ms Poh's performance, however, she was a little over the top in a couple of scenes, overly dramatic. I put this down to her first major movie and that it's the first time she did such a role. Still, the film is enjoyable. Ok, talking about it now makes me want to watch it again. It's been a few years since the last viewing, I'll have to break it out of storage. I've too many dvds as it is. Her other movies have chars of women pretending to be guys; just don't get too confused. ;D Like General Hua Mulan, I doubt you'll be confused with this one. The Female Prince is another. Roles in which she played a guy are : The Grand Substitution, The Mermaid, Three Smiles, etc. I've seen about 70% of her movies at the most. I mostly bought the opera movies. The reason that it's usually the opera historical setting that gender is hidden so easily. ;D All that long flowing robes and so on but then, without the right posture and mannerisms, it'll just come across badly. So that means, she did it right. There's also wuxia movies which I also have. Not just those with her in it, there are others too. The old gen actors have a certain charm about them. ;D Too, there're no computer or extreme flashy martial flying stuff. The first wuxia was a true dance of swords. There's also one Hong Kong actress who also did gender bend excellently too; Lin Ching-Hsia. She's most famous for Dong Fang Bu Bai or The East Is Red. The sequel, Swordsman II, was average because IMO, the producer lost his script...somewhat. I think her first was Jia Bao Yu or Dream of the Red Chambers, and that one was awful! Her last gender bend movie, The Three Swordsmen, was also another howler, horrible story and pacing. I don't quite understand why she did that but I suppose she just wanted to earn some $$. Bride With White Hair and Ashes of Time are very good. Her contemporay movies are nice too, she has worked with Jackie Chan in A Police Story. I laughed like a nut in Peking Opera Blues, the comedy was well mixed in. But I think perhaps those who do not understand Chinese might not get the nuances / whole treatment. But that's only from my VP. She's retired now, same as Ms Po, married with kids. I heard the producers of Xena tried to get her to star in one ep, in which Xena supposedly learn some martial skills from some eastern mentor, but she declined the offer. So, Ms Po, Brigette Lin and now Moon Guem Young. 3 actresses who are able to switch about convincingly.
|
|
|
Post by TheBo on Apr 20, 2011 11:01:41 GMT -5
...I know MCW (Jeong-hyang) is going to appear in a action saguek, I think it's a movie. POTW was her first foray into acting and she's fortunate it went off so well. It looks like her first bit was in something called Mackerel Run (SBS 2007), but I don't know know big a role it was. She did a good job in PotW; she did a great job in Brilliant Legacy, too. I don't know how much luck had to do with it. ;D Okay, so I DID have it right. LOL. You did a fine job. I'll happily give you credit for everyone else's work. I know it's a Chinese opera convention to switch genders, but usually it's the man playing a woman. And it's not even just Chinese, but Western as well. Shakespeare took it so far as to have a man playing a woman pretending to be a man and commenting on these facts on stage. Such fun. It is an art. General Hua Mulan is the same as the Disney character is supposed to be, right? (Don't go all Disney-hate on me, I'm not judging it in the same category, just asking. LOL.) Now you're making ME want to see some of these movies. Thank you for the list of recommendations. So, is Lin Ching-hsia the Chinese name of Brigitte Lin? Please elucidate. I agree with you about losing nuance, it's a shame we all can't just "know" each others' languages. But then, where would the arms manufacturers be if everyone understood each other? Bo
|
|
|
Post by griffin on Apr 20, 2011 11:51:38 GMT -5
It looks like her first bit was in something called Mackerel Run (SBS 2007), but I don't know know big a role it was. She did a good job in PotW; she did a great job in Brilliant Legacy, too. I don't know how much luck had to do with it. ;D Luck and a goods cript? ;D Her recent work in contemporary dramas didn't shine. LOL. That's unfair to the others. I told them I started it and they faithfully learned to add on to it. They deserved more credit than me. I had also wanted to start a page on one of well known huangmei singers who sometimes dubbed for the actors but I didn't get round to it. Oh well, I hope Ter learned to start one. [/quote] Oh my I totally forgot about Shakespeare. hehe. Well, the Disney version is more for the kids. I must affirm that there are no pet dragons in the classic GHM movie! ;D Yes, Lin Ching Hsia is her Chinese name. She was originally born in China but was taken over to Taiwan by her mom. She has a older sister in China who eerily resembled her. Might be her twin! She really did a LOT of weepy romance movies (Taiwanese, what else. They're famous for that!) with a very long time beau, CHin Han, before finally they broke up after many many years and she married a wealthy businessman (who owns the Espirit brand, etc). Even as a kid, I found the weepy movies really too teary. I can't tolerate any movie or drama from Taiwan. It's so dodo ... because my parents left Taiwan and settled in our current home. I never visited the clan of relatives there, I know there's a daunting whole slew of them. To hear of a 14th uncle is already extremely scary (I think my grandpa had a few wives, they tend to marry as they like back then. Of course, if he had a bro and he also had the same number of spouses ...). I think I really heard that wrong. But I'm wandering away from the topic. Have you seen all the eps for POTW? If so, do you like the conclusion? But I'm guessing you have not seen everything. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the producer had been called a coward by some fans; he shied away from making a statement. They didn't want murky waters, they want it as "fact". I'm referring to the undress-for-YB-scene and the latter developments. The conclusion did not satisfy all and raised alot of debates. For me, it's acceptable and understandable. I have no idea what was the original ending written by the author. Nevertheless, I chose to do closure with my fanfic. I felt the story deserve a ending and I chose the binding which I feel came across the strongest on screen, despite the discomfort I feel. I can only say MGY as YB and MCW as JH thoroughly convinced me on some points.
|
|
|
Post by TheBo on Apr 22, 2011 10:25:57 GMT -5
LOL. I'm going to answer you later. But loving the reading.
Bo
|
|
|
Post by TheBo on Apr 27, 2011 14:22:43 GMT -5
Yes, I finished PotW some time ago, because I had to write a review of it. I think the ending could be a little unsatisfying, but it seemed they were serving two masters. First, they had to have an ending for the drama in which Danwon was in love with Yun, and that was acknowledged by everyone who knew Yun's secret (including the king). Second, they had to honor the true history, which is that Danwon and Yun did NOT run off together, because Yun was not a girl. And they weren't even big buddies, from what I understand.
You say:
I don't quite understand what you mean. (I understand what you mean by fanfic, LOL.) How did you "choose the binding"?
|
|
|
Post by griffin on Apr 27, 2011 21:36:32 GMT -5
I don't think Danwon and Hyewon ever met at all though they were probably aware of each other's existence. ;D Through his paintings for Jeongjo, Danwon was elevated steadily through the ranks. He was even made governor of Yungpung, a post that usually went to a Yangban. Unfortunately for him, during his tenure, a 3 yr drought struck and the wiyusa sent to oversee the problem in the province took umbrage to a Jurgin given this honor and for his refusal to clarify his stance in a quarrel between the governor of Chungcheong and the Byeongsa, both friends of his. He was kciked from this post and ordered to Hanseong for full investigation on purported abuse of authority but Jeongjo saw fit to pardon him 10 days later. Thereafter, he continued to paint for the King. Hyewon Shin Yun-bok could not apply for a official post due to the fact his father was already employed in Dohwaseo. It's said that he chose to travel about, mostly patronising gibang (women! Always women in his paintngs! ). But since not much is known of him, I guess whatever there is about him comes from his paintings. Everyone and anyone taking potshots. ;D When I said closure, I chose to pair YB off. The fictional char just left on her own, right? I chose to have her meet JH again yrs later. Hong-do is out, mainly because I know something about his history. Too, despite his affections, nevertheless, he's old enough to be her father and there was his vow to protect his friend's child. So how could they end up together? I see his affections as a convoluted mix. YB & JH is a tough combination. I chose this pairing because despite the hurt, the lie and disillusion, JH was willing to cast them aside to help YB in her plan for revenge. Did she not even wish she and YB could run away together? What motivated her? Was she just trying to brazen it out, lying to herself or simply because despite the truth, her affections for YB was too strong to deny? Of the 2 plausible pairings, to me, YB + JH came across the strongest. They parted at the end, wishing each other well. YB left by herself at the conlcusion; sad, uncertain. I went: Shucks, ok, I can accept such an ending but I do want to see this char happy. ;D Why can't she have a happy ending? Her childhood was turned topsy turvy and thereafter, messed up even more by Han-pyeong, etc. Talk about love for a char. haha. I have to give praises to MGY, she really did a good job. WCW too. P.S. Do you want to take a peek at the fanfic? I think you'll laugh. ;D
|
|
|
Post by TheBo on Apr 28, 2011 12:37:42 GMT -5
A) I am SO PLEASED that you paired those two off. I was thinking this morning (for some odd reason), that was the money couple and they should have ended up together. (Seriously, I was walking down the street and thought of that.) B) Your additional historical info on Danwon is so interesting! Thank you! C) Yes, I'd like to take a peek. Is it supposed to be funny or are you afraid of unintentional humor? Please, do tell where I can see it.
|
|
|
Post by griffin on Apr 28, 2011 20:12:11 GMT -5
A) I am SO PLEASED that you paired those two off. I was thinking this morning (for some odd reason), that was the money couple and they should have ended up together. (Seriously, I was walking down the street and thought of that.) B) Your additional historical info on Danwon is so interesting! Thank you! C) Yes, I'd like to take a peek. Is it supposed to be funny or are you afraid of unintentional humor? Please, do tell where I can see it. A] Cool! Another 5 nyang / coin fan. B] I have to do research for the fanfics so I know slightly more. C] Oh I said you'll laugh because I am after all a amateur at writing. I never wrote fanfic before so POTW : OIAS is my first foray into such. I wrote a total of 5, spanning from the yr 2009 to this yr, with a 6th current. I'm afraid I don't quite understand what motivated me but a friend said I am passionate about this story so I guess that's it. No doubt it'll die down and I'll look back at the fanfics with amusement in later years. ;D I'll put the link for the first fanfic in a pm to you. P.S. I used quite a number of romanized Korean words. The meanings of which are right at the end of the pages. I also have no idea how sangmin would talk to one another, I know there are differences between Yangban and sangmin but I couldn't really emulate how it was like so I took the easy way out. The names of places I used, Uiryeong for example, are actual names of towns in existence since the Imjin Waeran. I tried as far as possible (what I am able to learn) to keep true to the history and customs of those times. That means throwing out the usual mannerisms we take for granted in the modern age. Which also means, there are certain words I cannot use.
|
|
|
Post by TheBo on Apr 30, 2011 11:26:31 GMT -5
I saw your link. I don't think I'll be able to look at it until next week, but I wanted to thank you for sending it. I agree with your ideas on word use, I wish more people would understand that. It's a fine line between making it understandable to modern eyes/ears and making it true to time and place.
|
|
|
Post by griffin on May 9, 2011 20:55:59 GMT -5
Sometimes I wonder how much is 5 nyang in relation to modern currency. Most of the time, nyang is oft mentioned in the sageuk. I hardly hear pun or chon, the only exception is Sangdo where the smaller denominations are seen. 5 nyang for a painting doesn't seem like a lot. It is a paltry sum since JH refused to entertain YB's request initially which makes me wonder...at what rate did the gisaeng go for back then? 25 nyang, the shopkeeper was offering to his customers for YB's painting, sounds overblown. In Sangdo, a small business can be set up with 20 nyang. Confusing but perhaps in Sangdo, it's a different King and economics. The best I can figure out is pun = pennies, chon = cents, nyang = dollars.
|
|