|
|
Post by mugwump on May 13, 2007 15:57:41 GMT -5
Warning - possible spoilers through episode 18.
How wonderful, after all those months with nothing but Seoul 1945, to be back in the time of flaming arrows, whooshing swords and men in top-knots.
I'm really enjoying this one, and am surprised at how many likable characters there are (and how many actors from previous shows). Also it's been very exciting with no boring parts yet.
I love the generals, Dae Jungsang (loved him as General Du in AOW), Go (the metro man), Yang Manchon, even Yeon Gaesomon. He really seems to be an old softie, even if he killed the previous king. He clearly dotes on his son, but recognizes his limitations. And he really did seem to take fatherly interest in Dae Joyoung as he was growing up. Even the first Tang emperor was likable. Xue Rengi is a hoot, Archie is clearly having a great time with this part.
Gulsabiwu and Gom Mojam are a treat to see (especially after their previous roles in YSS).
The usual slimey politicians.
Shin Hong - looks like he's already on his way to being a scuzz-ball like Chung Su in YSS. Unfortunately.
Dae Joyoung, Li Kaigu, Chulin, limited range as yet, good triangle going.
For once a king who isn't paranoid. Maybe he isn't the brightest bulb in the lamp, but seems good-hearted.
Some good MORRAs. No PAMPORAs yet (maybe they only apply to cannon fire?)
Question 1 - In Episode 18 when Li Kaigu told DJY the Tang plans in exchange for Chulin's life, Chulin was calling him something that was translated as Kaigu but clearly wasn't his name. Is this like in YSS, when Mijin was calling him something that meant "big brother"?
Question 2 - How big are these forts/ castles anyway? On a number of occasions (and also in YSS) we've seen soldiers ride through the gate into the city/fort/castle, and then they're riding through forests and hillsides (often getting ambushed). How big an area did these walls encompass?
Question 3 - the hair. What a variety in hair styles in this one. Do the different styles (among the Koreans) mean anything? In AOW, many of the men had their top hair in a pony tail and the rest hanging down (Gom Mojam, reminding me very much of KDS, especially with the clothes). In YSS, all the men (except Nalbal) seemed to have all their hair up in a topknot. In DJY some have the pony tails, some have the full topknots, and Gulbasiwu has the Nalbal look (hanging down with two strands hanging over the face). The two strands hanging down make me think "assassin" as there was also a serf in AOW with the same hairdo and great martial arts skill, who was hired to kill CCH (he didn't succeed).
Sorry if any of this has already been discussed on other threads. I'm trying not to spoil myself by reading too many. So many of you are ahead of us here in Philly.
|
|
|
|
Post by ginnycat5 on May 14, 2007 9:47:56 GMT -5
Warning - possible spoilers through episode 18. How wonderful, after all those months with nothing but Seoul 1945, to be back in the time of flaming arrows, whooshing swords and men in top-knots. I'm really enjoying this one, and am surprised at how many likable characters there are (and how many actors from previous shows). Also it's been very exciting with no boring parts yet. I love the generals, Dae Jungsang (loved him as General Du in AOW), Go (the metro man), Yang Manchon, even Yeon Gaesomon. He really seems to be an old softie, even if he killed the previous king. He clearly dotes on his son, but recognizes his limitations. And he really did seem to take fatherly interest in Dae Joyoung as he was growing up. Even the first Tang emperor was likable. Xue Rengi is a hoot, Archie is clearly having a great time with this part. Gulsabiwu and Gom Mojam are a treat to see (especially after their previous roles in YSS). The usual slimey politicians. Shin Hong - looks like he's already on his way to being a scuzz-ball like Chung Su in YSS. Unfortunately. Dae Joyoung, Li Kaigu, Chulin, limited range as yet, good triangle going. For once a king who isn't paranoid. Maybe he isn't the brightest bulb in the lamp, but seems good-hearted. Some good MORRAs. No PAMPORAs yet (maybe they only apply to cannon fire?) Question 1 - In Episode 18 when Li Kaigu told DJY the Tang plans in exchange for Chulin's life, Chulin was calling him something that was translated as Kaigu but clearly wasn't his name. Is this like in YSS, when Mijin was calling him something that meant "big brother"? Question 2 - How big are these forts/ castles anyway? On a number of occasions (and also in YSS) we've seen soldiers ride through the gate into the city/fort/castle, and then they're riding through forests and hillsides (often getting ambushed). How big an area did these walls encompass? Question 3 - the hair. What a variety in hair styles in this one. Do the different styles (among the Koreans) mean anything? In AOW, many of the men had their top hair in a pony tail and the rest hanging down (Gom Mojam, reminding me very much of KDS, especially with the clothes). In YSS, all the men (except Nalbal) seemed to have all their hair up in a topknot. In DJY some have the pony tails, some have the full topknots, and Gulbasiwu has the Nalbal look (hanging down with two strands hanging over the face). The two strands hanging down make me think "assassin" as there was also a serf in AOW with the same hairdo and great martial arts skill, who was hired to kill CCH (he didn't succeed). Sorry if any of this has already been discussed on other threads. I'm trying not to spoil myself by reading too many. So many of you are ahead of us here in Philly. About the hair, I was thinking that men with hair hanging down were from tribes rather than from mainstream Goguryeo society. Just a guess. |
|
|
|
Post by Candylover on May 14, 2007 21:14:15 GMT -5
 Mugwump, above is a painting portraying the Anshi battle. Koguryo soldiers are rushing on the artificial mountain build by Tang army, and the walls surrounding the fortress are also shown. Typically the total lengths of the walls of fortress/castles were several kilometers, the heights were 5 to 8 meters, and the widths were of meters. The circumference of Pyong-yang castle, the capital city, was more than 20 kilometers. The areas the walls encompass are not so large, but since most of fortresses were built not on the plains but on the mountains, you might have to come across small forests and hillsides inside.  This is a photograph of Baek-ahm fortress of Koguryo, and the circumference is about 2.5 kilometers, relatively small one.  Different hair styles and caps mean different social statuses. Above is a collection of copies from the wall paintings of Koguryo tumbs, showing 24 hair styles/caps, each of which are numbered. It's too sad I don't have much information about it, but anyway how many caps/hairdos in the above picture can you pick up from the drama? Maybe... hair styles/caps number - characters with the hair styles/caps #23 - Dae Jung-Sang and other generals/soldiers #21 - Gulsabiwu #13 - Bu Ki-Won What I can say surely is that the most popular caps in ancient Korea as well as Koguryo was the one called "jurlpoong( or jeolpung )." It is basically a small triangular cap put on the top of the heads and the noble class decorated it with two (or more) feathers - see #6 while the commoners didn't. The caps of #1, #2, #6, #7, #10 are all based on this cap. I think this drama had to have shown this cap more frequently.  This picture was painted by a Tang painter in the early 7th century (629), and shows how ancient Korean envoys who visited Tang at the time looked like. There were three kingdoms in Korea at the time - Koguryo, Baekje, Silla. Envoys in the picture are from Baekje, Koguryo, Silla from left to right. Please notice that all of them were wearing a cap called "jurlpoong." Silla unified most of the Korean peninsula by destroying Baekje (660) and Koguryo (668) in alliance with Tang, and ousting Tang (676). About 20 years later (698) after a long war against Tang, Dae Jo-Young established Balhae in Manchuria and the extreme northern part of the Korean peninsula, hence starting the period of the South (Silla) and North (Balhae) dynasties. Historians often refer to the period from the Silla conquest until the end of the Silla dynasty as "Unified Silla," although the extreme north of the peninsula and a large part of Manchuria were under the control of the Balhae kingdom. |
|
|
|
Post by cheonson on May 15, 2007 9:42:52 GMT -5
[quote author=candylover board=daejoyoung This picture was painted by a Tang painter in the early 7th century (629), and shows how ancient Korean envoys who visited Tang looked like. There were three kingdoms in Korea at the time - Koguryo, Baekje, Silla. Envoys in the picture are from Baekje, Koguryo, Silla from left to right. Please notice that all of them were wearing a cap called "jurlpoong." Silla unified most of the Korean peninsula by destroying Baekje (668) and Koguryo (668) in alliance with Tang, and ousting Tang (676). About 30 years later (698) after a long war against Tang, Dae Jo-Young established Balhae in Manchuria and the northern part of the Korean peninsula, hence starting the period of the South (Silla) and the North (Balhae) dynasties. Historians often refer to the period from the Silla conquest until the end of the Silla dynasty as "Unified Silla," although the extreme north of the peninsula and a large part of Manchuria were under the control of the Balhae kingdom.[/quote] Bellow is another Koguryeo people (warriors or envoys) on a Tomb mural from Central Asia. The two Koguryeo envoys are on the right side of the picture. Look at the cap with bird feathers which is special aspect of old Korean cap decoration. - You can see this kind of decoration also in the dramas set up from Yi-Josun (such as Immortal Yi Sun Shin) period. Also look at their hands gathering inside in their wide sleeves. That position seems to be one of paritcular ones for Koguryeo people. - unlike Koguryeo envoys, others on the picture stand in a very informal position. In the picture they have their swords sticked on their side but in Korean historical dramas all of the warriors have their swords in their hands and cavalrys even use their swords as a whip when they run on a horse -_-.  |
|
|
|
Post by cheonson on May 15, 2007 10:30:45 GMT -5
Historians often refer to the period from the Silla conquest until the end of the Silla dynasty as "Unified Silla," although the extreme north of the peninsula and a large part of Manchuria were under the control of the Balhae kingdom. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Manchurian (original tribe name is Yeo-Jin) is descendants of Shilla and Koguryeo. Their first dynasty, Gold Dynasty, was built by Shilla royal family and that is why they called their dynasty Gold Dynasty(Kim Dynasty). Before the fall of Balhae, there Manchu didn't even exist. After the fall of Balhae many of them come to Koryeo and became Koryeo people but others still remained in the North Part of East Asia preparing for another Korean Dynasty. The first King of Ching dynasty claimed that he is the Lord of DongYi (Who are today's Koreans, Mongols, Manchus and some Japanese) and called himself Khan which was title for the supreme leader of Dongyi. Ching, Manchu dynasty, doesn't have anything to do with today's China.- ONLY TRUE thing related with China is that Ching was one of Dongyi dynasties which had recovered most part of old territory of Dongyi after the fall of Koguryeo. Today's china is actuallly NOT a multiracial(multi-ethnic) country. 60 ethnics including Manchus are classfied as different people from the major ethnic(descendants of Ming dynasty) and each ethnic people except descendants of Ming have to have their own unique ID card with sign saying what ethinc they are from. Today's China hasn't succeeded Ching Dynasty as it killed the last king and royal family of Ching and other important people of Ching, who can be evidence of power of Manchu ethinc and also they burned out most of the history books of Ching which can be evidences of its glorious ancestors after the fall of Ching. - Now it is just poor minor ethinc under the rule of descendants of Ming. After the fall of Ching, the rulling ethinc have been regaining its tradition and recovering its histores clearing away the traces of its foreign rullers such Mongols and Manchus . [/quote] |
|
|
|
Post by cheonson on May 15, 2007 11:52:33 GMT -5
Question 3 - the hair. What a variety in hair styles in this one. Do the different styles (among the Koreans) mean anything? In AOW, many of the men had their top hair in a pony tail and the rest hanging down (Gom Mojam, reminding me very much of KDS, especially with the clothes). In YSS, all the men (except Nalbal) seemed to have all their hair up in a topknot. In DJY some have the pony tails, some have the full topknots, and Gulbasiwu has the Nalbal look (hanging down with two strands hanging over the face). The two strands hanging down make me think "assassin" as there was also a serf in AOW with the same hairdo and great martial arts skill, who was hired to kill CCH (he didn't succeed). Korean traditional hair styles are known as braid for a little boy and little girl, chignon for a married woman and a topknot for a married man. Korean middle and high school students had braids just untill 70s as their school look. There Gulsabiwoo acts as the oldest son of head of Malgal tribe and his hair style is to show he is from Malgal. Magal is one of Goguryeo people but at that time each people from different provinces seem to have different hair style as even modern days each people from different provinces has different traditions and different languages even thought they are one ethnic in one nation. |
|
|
|
Post by BungalowDweller on May 15, 2007 21:39:37 GMT -5
Candylover and Cheonson--Thank you both for the beautiful and informative pictures and drawings and for the history lesson!  This is so enriching for those of us who are not Korean.  |
|
|
|
Post by mugwump on May 16, 2007 20:13:45 GMT -5
Great pictures and information. The picture of the men with their swords brings me to something else I've often wondered about in watching these shows. Why do the men just carry their swords instead of fastening the scabbard to a belt as in European warfare? It only leaves one hand free, especially when riding. They have to take out the sword, throw down the scabbard. Pick the scabbard back up when they're done fighting. Seems very inefficient to me.
There have been a few times when a warrior had his sword strapped on his back (e.g. Yi Ko) but this seems to be an exception.
|
|
|
|
Post by Candylover on May 17, 2007 9:32:32 GMT -5
Great pictures and information. The picture of the men with their swords brings me to something else I've often wondered about in watching these shows. Why do the men just carry their swords instead of fastening the scabbard to a belt as in European warfare? It only leaves one hand free, especially when riding. They have to take out the sword, throw down the scabbard. Pick the scabbard back up when they're done fighting. Seems very inefficient to me. There have been a few times when a warrior had his sword strapped on his back (e.g. Yi Ko) but this seems to be an exception. Mugwump, you have keen eyes. Actors in Korean historical dramas who carry swords instead of fastening the scabbard to a belt are just unrealistic! And KBS drama staffs are responsible for this unrealisic handling of swords. They shoud have told the actors to fasten the scabbard to their belts or on theit backs. This shortcoming has been pointed out frequenly in Korea, but not been corrected yet. |
|
|
|
Post by ajk on May 18, 2007 11:44:16 GMT -5
Yes, thanks for finding and sharing those photos. English-language internet searches don't turn up much as far as these kinds of illustrations, so I appreciate both of you posting them.
|
|
|
|
Post by cheonson on May 20, 2007 2:53:27 GMT -5
|
|
This is so enriching for those of us who are not Korean. 
