|
Post by REAL on Dec 21, 2006 1:30:57 GMT -5
With all due respect, I beg to disagree with "Real's" assertion that Yeon ranks higher than Yi Soon-shin on Korea's hero list. I have never heard such a thing. As far as I remember(I am an over-fifty Korean,) No.1 on the Korea's hero list has always been either YSS or King Sejong the Great(during whose reign many cultural achievements were made including invention of Hangeul.) I just checked the Korean internet. I couldn't find Yeon's name on five greatest Koreans' list. Sorry. well many internet website has a different perspective. and king sejong is not a hero. he didnt do anything to 'save' the country. he made hangeul, so what? that doesnt make him a hero.
|
|
|
Post by REAL on Dec 21, 2006 1:34:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the backgrond info -- that's really helpful...helps me to understand why Yi Soon Shin, with all of his accomlishments, still might not be "#1" REAL, i encourage you to sign on with your own identity on the board...it can make things a lot easier for you, and the rest of us. We appreciate your input & love to see you more a part of our community. okay, i will join. the reason i wasnt joining was because i don't live in chicago.
|
|
|
Post by REAL on Dec 21, 2006 1:35:21 GMT -5
With all due respect, I beg to disagree with "Real's" assertion that Yeon ranks higher than Yi Soon-shin on Korea's hero list. I have never heard such a thing. As far as I remember(I am an over-fifty Korean,) No.1 on the Korea's hero list has always been either YSS or King Sejong the Great(during whose reign many cultural achievements were made including invention of Hangeul.) I just checked the Korean internet. I couldn't find Yeon's name on five greatest Koreans' list. Sorry. well many internet website has a different perspective. and king sejong is not a hero. he didnt do anything to 'save' the country. he made hangeul, so what? that doesnt make him a hero. king sejong maybe considered as a politically great king, but not a hero.
|
|
|
Post by King Sejong on Dec 21, 2006 5:44:40 GMT -5
King Sejong not a hero? Are you sure about that? He's regarded as the greatest king in Korean history. Yeon Gaesomun a greater hero than Yi Soon Shin? Do you have some sort of bias against the Chosun era? I'm astonished by the statements you're making.
|
|
|
Post by BAE on Dec 21, 2006 11:02:13 GMT -5
Thanks for the backgrond info -- that's really helpful...helps me to understand why Yi Soon Shin, with all of his accomlishments, still might not be "#1" REAL, i encourage you to sign on with your own identity on the board...it can make things a lot easier for you, and the rest of us. We appreciate your input & love to see you more a part of our community. okay, i will join. the reason i wasnt joining was because i don't live in chicago. Actually, a lot of people on this board, surprisingly, aren't from Chicago. It's just about sharing your perspective about these K-dramas. And you provide such valuable information along the way, so joining is a good idea.
|
|
|
Post by BAE on Dec 21, 2006 11:05:00 GMT -5
of course Yeon Gae So Moon is not a bad man lol on Korea's hero list, Yeon ranks higher than Yi Soon Shin. everyone in korea respects him. Can you remember where you read this information about said "hero list"? I'd like to see it as well. I'm a pretty big "fan" of King Sejong and YSS, YGSM is rapidly entering my list. ;D
|
|
|
Post by REAL on Dec 21, 2006 11:08:19 GMT -5
King Sejong not a hero? Are you sure about that? He's regarded as the greatest king in Korean history. Yeon Gaesomun a greater hero than Yi Soon Shin? Do you have some sort of bias against the Chosun era? I'm astonished by the statements you're making. King Sejong is not the greatest king in Korean history. He is, however, the greatest king in Chosun history. And uh.. yes... Yeon Gae So Moon is a greater hero than Yi Soon Shin is, because without him, there would be no Chosun dynasty, Yi Soon Shin, and modern Korea, there will only be China. Don't get me mistaken, I'm proud of all of Korean history, but I'm just saying Chosun was the weakest dynasty of them all. Chosun thought of Ming as their 'sang gook'(I'm assuming you're Korean, so I'm not translating this word), but other dynasties, especially Koguryo would never EVER think of the Chinese as their sang gook. I respect King Sejong, Yi Soon Shin, Huh Joon, Jung Yak Yong and all those great Chosun era people. All I'm saying is that Chosun was the weakest dynasty where most of people starved except Yangban. Because of the weak and selfish monarch King Sunjo, Korea was attacked by Japan, and if Yi Soon Shin wasn't there, Korea wouldn't exist today. Because of the weak and greedy monarch King Injo who killed Prince Kwang Hae(whom I think is one of the greatest king in Korean history, and he should be referred as King Kwang Hae not Prince) to take the throne, Korea ended up being conquered by the Manchurians, and this idiot King Injo had to admit the humiliating defeat by bowing to the Manchurian Emperor. Because of Gojong and his retarded father, Prince Dae-Won, his wife Empress Myung Sung(which is the name I despise since this is the name that Japanese gave to the queen) lost all of their political power to the Japanese and King Soonjong of Chosun, or Emperor Soonjong of so-called 'Korean Empire', though it was nothing but a pre-colony of Japan, Korea became a Japanese colony for 35 years. There would never be a monarch in Korean history again. Which is why when this so-called the descendant of the Chosun monarchy re-claimed the throne by calling herself the Empress, many people on the Internet insulted her, and some people didn't even pay attention. You know what most people who replied to the news said? "We don't want Chosun. Koguryo? Maybe...." Chosun, although it had many great people that I respect, it was also a period of humiliation in the way I see it. It's also making the name of Old Chousn dirty. Compared to Chosun, Old Chosun was a huge empire which fought against the Han dynasty for over hundred years until its downfall.
|
|
|
Post by REAL on Dec 21, 2006 11:12:22 GMT -5
of course Yeon Gae So Moon is not a bad man lol on Korea's hero list, Yeon ranks higher than Yi Soon Shin. everyone in korea respects him. Can you remember where you read this information about said "hero list"? I'd like to see it as well. I'm a pretty big "fan" of King Sejong and YSS, YGSM is rapidly entering my list. ;D there is no such thing as 'hero list', when I said hero list, it was supposed to be what lot of people think. But like I said earlier, many Interent websites and people have different perspective. Many people think Yi Soon Shin is the greatest hero and then again, many people think Yeon Gae So Moon is the greatest hero. So whoever is the greatest hero depends on how you think. I'm pretty sure that many of you here would think that Yi Soon Shin is the greatest hero becaue of his drama, and that's exactly what I was talking about.
|
|
|
Post by geumriver on Dec 21, 2006 13:55:31 GMT -5
This is really getting ridiculous. Everytime REAL opens his mouth, he is stating his minority view of the Korean history as if it were the majority view or at least a popular view, misleading American K-drama fans. Sometime he contradicts what he said in one of his earlier posts.
First, he said "On Korea's hero list Yeon ranks higher than Yi Soon Shin." Then in a later post he said "There is no such a thing as hero list.......it was supposed to be what lots of people think." He tries to wiggle out of this contradiction by saying that "people have different perspective." Well, he should have said that in the very beggining. He should said that his view is one of the several.
Still, he is very obsinate. He says "Many people think that YSS is the greatest hero and then again, many people think YGSM is the greatest hero." This is still extreme. I haven't heard of "many people who think YGSM is the greatest hero." I wonder where he got this preposterous idea. As far as I know, Yeon falls far below YSS in category of the greatest Korean (or military hero) in most Koreans' mind.
He says "Without YGSM, there would be no Chosun dynasty, no YSS, modern Korea, only China." This is another extremest view of his. In fact, this is absolutely preposterous. Because Korean historians think that while he defended Koguryo from China's invasions during his lifetime, his absolute power and disunity among his sons who received the power from him eventually led to Koguryo's downfall at the hands of Silla and China.
I am beginning to lose respect for REAL's posts. He has some knowledge of Korean history, but most of his views are a minority opinion. TROUBLE is, he is trying to sell it as a popular view.
|
|
|
Post by REAL on Dec 21, 2006 14:57:45 GMT -5
This is really getting ridiculous. Everytime REAL opens his mouth, he is stating his minority view of the Korean history as if it were the majority view or at least a popular view, misleading American K-drama fans. Sometime he contradicts what he said in one of his earlier posts. First, he said "On Korea's hero list Yeon ranks higher than Yi Soon Shin." Then in a later post he said "There is no such a thing as hero list.......it was supposed to be what lots of people think." He tries to wiggle out of this contradiction by saying that "people have different perspective." Well, he should have said that in the very beggining. He should said that his view is one of the several. Still, he is very obsinate. He says "Many people think that YSS is the greatest hero and then again, many people think YGSM is the greatest hero." This is still extreme. I haven't heard of "many people who think YGSM is the greatest hero." I wonder where he got this preposterous idea. As far as I know, Yeon falls far below YSS in category of the greatest Korean (or military hero) in most Koreans' mind. He says "Without YGSM, there would be no Chosun dynasty, no YSS, modern Korea, only China." This is another extremest view of his. In fact, this is absolutely preposterous. Because Korean historians think that while he defended Koguryo from China's invasions during his lifetime, his absolute power and disunity among his sons who received the power from him eventually led to Koguryo's downfall at the hands of Silla and China. I am beginning to lose respect for REAL's posts. He has some knowledge of Korean history, but most of his views are a minority opinion. TROUBLE is, he is trying to sell it as a popular view. Yeah, I hate Yeon's sons too. Just becaues I like the father, doesn't mean I like the son. But seriously, without Yeon, what do you think would've happened to Koguryo? Again, whether you think Yi Soon Shin is greater or Yeon is greater depends on what you think.
|
|
|
Post by Walkman on Dec 21, 2006 15:03:23 GMT -5
This is really getting ridiculous. Everytime REAL opens his mouth, he is stating his minority view of the Korean history as if it were the majority view or at least a popular view, misleading American K-drama fans. Sometime he contradicts what he said in one of his earlier posts. First, he said "On Korea's hero list Yeon ranks higher than Yi Soon Shin." Then in a later post he said "There is no such a thing as hero list.......it was supposed to be what lots of people think." He tries to wiggle out of this contradiction by saying that "people have different perspective." Well, he should have said that in the very beggining. He should said that his view is one of the several. Still, he is very obsinate. He says "Many people think that YSS is the greatest hero and then again, many people think YGSM is the greatest hero." This is still extreme. I haven't heard of "many people who think YGSM is the greatest hero." I wonder where he got this preposterous idea. As far as I know, Yeon falls far below YSS in category of the greatest Korean (or military hero) in most Koreans' mind. He says "Without YGSM, there would be no Chosun dynasty, no YSS, modern Korea, only China." This is another extremest view of his. In fact, this is absolutely preposterous. Because Korean historians think that while he defended Koguryo from China's invasions during his lifetime, his absolute power and disunity among his sons who received the power from him eventually led to Koguryo's downfall at the hands of Silla and China. I am beginning to lose respect for REAL's posts. He has some knowledge of Korean history, but most of his views are a minority opinion. TROUBLE is, he is trying to sell it as a popular view. I don't know if this is a correct information or not, but I've heard that a history book called 'Chosun's Ancient History' by Shin Chae Ho says that Yeon Gae So Moon is perhaps the greatest hero in Chosunese history.
|
|
|
Post by geumriver on Dec 21, 2006 17:56:13 GMT -5
Yes, Walkman, I heard that, too. But as they say, "One swallow does not make spring," and one historian saying it doesn't make YGSM the greatest hero in Korean history. It is definetly a minority opinion, and even school children in Korea know that. REAL, I can't really answer your question. Historians could make conjectures of what-ifs. My own guess is, if Koguryo (under a less belligerant leader) had not provoked China and waited for a better chance, it could have survived a lot longer time.
|
|
|
Post by REAL on Dec 21, 2006 19:22:15 GMT -5
Yes, Walkman, I heard that, too. But as they say, "One swallow does not make spring," and one historian saying it doesn't make YGSM the greatest hero in Korean history. It is definetly a minority opinion, and even school children in Korea know that. REAL, I can't really answer your question. Historians could make conjectures of what-ifs. My own guess is, if Koguryo (under a less belligerant leader) had not provoked China and waited for a better chance, it could have survived a lot longer time. can we please settle down now? geez
|
|
|
Post by JP Paulus on Dec 22, 2006 18:01:46 GMT -5
Yes, Walkman, I heard that, too. But as they say, "One swallow does not make spring," and one historian saying it doesn't make YGSM the greatest hero in Korean history. It is definetly a minority opinion, and even school children in Korea know that. REAL, I can't really answer your question. Historians could make conjectures of what-ifs. My own guess is, if Koguryo (under a less belligerant leader) had not provoked China and waited for a better chance, it could have survived a lot longer time. can we please settle down now? geez Let's heed Real's advice (speaking as a moderator. as a member[/j] i think Real has some legitmate points that i never thought of very much (i.e. Korea's staus pre=Koryo (i.e. Wang Guhn), and during the Chosun period).
i had never heard of Yeon before this drama (as far as i know), so i had no idea what kind of person he was in Korean history.
Based on watching the TV dramas, i would still rank Yi Soon Shin higher, but that (like everyone else's opinion) is subjective, and i am definitely interested in hearing others' perspectives. Can everyone agree to respect other's opinions?
Thank you.
|
|
|
Post by chocopie on Jan 6, 2007 23:26:30 GMT -5
At first, I was taken back by REAL's assertion that YGSM was the greatest hero of Korea then I thought about what he did and realized that he had some legitimate points. However, if we were to apply the same logic, what about Eul Ji Mun Duk? Didn't he prevent Sui from overrunning Koguryo? I do feel that YGSM's dicatorial powers weakened the Monarchy a lot and caused divisions in the government. However, he truly did defend Koguyro against a much larger opponent . However, he could not have done it without Yang Man Chun.
I also understand his assertion that Chosun was a weaker empire (than let say Gojosun or Goguryo) who was subservient to various dynasties in China. It only survived at the pleasure of the Chinese Emporer and when that power was gone, it quickly feel prey to Japan's imperial ambition. Even today, Korea is a subservient power (to US, China, etc.) It relies on the good will of its neighors to survives. Who know what future will bring.
|
|