Harder than we thought

[galacticchick]

Maybe marrying a korean guy will be harder than we thought. Just look at little Grandpa's reaction to his daughter dating an African American. He's reacting as if they've just told him his kid only has 6 months to live. I know it's something kind of foreign to them since they are such a homogenous nation, but I guess this really gives us insight into what a korean family would think if their son ever brought us home.

[Lucy]

I was surprised about this turn of events and wondered how I should feel about it. We must all be thinking, "What a bunch of racists!!" But it stands to reason in their culture, kind of. I mean, Koreans don't have much experience of people of different genetic backgrounds, and this family doesn't have any experience at all. Beyond the fact that African Americans must seem way different to them than ethnic Koreans, they might have some preconceptions about African Americans that are unfair. I think, GC, that it can be relatively easy for non-Korean wives and husbands to be accepted if they are not African American, if they are willing to preserve a certain amount of Korean-ness in the home. I know my chingu has said that her husband's mom was mostly worried that he wouldn't get to eat Korean food anymore, but in fact I think that she's making a big effort and that the stuff they do at home is hugely influenced by Korean practices, more so than the other way around.

I am worried that our African American board mates will be hurt or offended by this turn of events on "Who's My Love." I hope the characters don't act too reactionary and prejudiced. I have the feeling that Grandpa is going to be the voice of reason and acceptance, as usual. Already he is saying that there is nothing to be embarrassed about, so maybe everyone will grow a little bit because of this crisis.

I have to say that I feel sorry for Dukjin's having a daughter who is so Americanized and/or spoiled that she doesn't express her appreciation for the sacrifices her parents are making for her and just tells them not to interfere. Poor Dukjin was crying and talking to her (in his imagination), telling her, "your mother and father live apart because of you and work their fingers to the bone, and you tell your mother not to interfere?" Poor guy must be so disappointed in her.

[galacticchick]

Does your chingu's MIL live here or in Korea? I think the reaction might be different from a MIL living overseas than from one who has "drunk American water" as Little GP said.

[Lucy]

She lives here. They came over when the husband was 9, so the parents were well into adulthood when they came. But I'm not sure how much that means, since xelaevoli's MIL lives in Korea, from what I recall, and she seemed not to have a problem with her American DIL. Then again, we don't know the particulars of Melissa's situation, either. Melissa, if you are reading this, would you like to chime in?

P.S. But, getting back to the thought that prompted you to start this thread, I agree that we would have to expect some difficulties if the situation arose.

[galacticchick]

So many things go by my head. Maybe it's not as bad if you get a white in law as opposed to any other race. I mean they are so insistant on preserving the family lines and all that stuff.

Aigu, my American eyes see it one way, but I have to remember that this is a Korean show meant for korean people so of course they are not going to have the same frame of mind as me. Me, who grew up going to school with all different kinds of people, who was taught that there is beauty in diversity, etc. But I was also taught to value my heritage, to take pride where my parents come from, to understand all the sacrifices the ancestors before me made so I could live this life.

It's just a complicated issue. Either way, I'll wow my future hanguk omoni with my chopped up korean that I'll learn and bow really low so she can see my respect.

[Lucy]

Aigu, my American eyes see it one way, but I have to remember that this is a Korean show meant for korean people so of course they are not going to have the same frame of mind as me.

That's what I was trying to keep in mind, too. I was shocked by their attitude, but I came to make allowances after the initial disgust wore off. If I were not "white," it would have been harder for me to do that, I imagine.

Bae Yong-joon's parent's will be delighted with you, I'm sure. Just tell them lob is a peeling--Peeling!--that you have for their son: bucketsful, in fact.

[galacticchick]

lucy said:

Bae Yong-joon's parent's will be delighted with you, I'm sure. Just tell them lob is a peeling--Peeling!--that you have for their son: bucketsful, in fact.

I know! I'd even be willing to put up with a K-daily drama style MIL if she gives him to me. That is lob.

[TheBo]

galacticchick said:

...I know! I'd even be willing to put up with a K-daily drama style MIL if she gives him to me. That is lob.

Aigu! You must be channeling Hana, LOL.

I completely forgot about this storyline until I saw a bit of Uncle crying into his drink and remembered it. It is quite shocking, kind of hits you in the gut when you hear it. I think the first thing a Korean family in Korea would wish for, if one could not marry someone from home (with family to draw them to Korea) would be a second-generation Korean person, then probably people from other asian countries (not Japan, maybe?), then all other races. I'm not sure in what order they'd prefer those race choices to be, so I'm not going to expose myself by guessing, LOL.

I'm sure this'll add some topical interest to the series.

Bo

[BungalowDweller]

I found this dating issue with the Grandpa of interest. I agree with others that it's not just a racial thing. It is more a cultural thing than a color thing, I would think. Europeans are the same way. They talk a good game, but for the most part Poles marry Poles, Italians, Italians, etc.

The desire to preserve one's culture is not a racist, base desire. Food, language, shared beliefs, etc are very important things--my Gramma often told me that you don't marry the boy--you marry the whole family. There is alot to be said for that.

I grew up in an ethnic home and have been married for over 27 years to a man with whom I shared no cultural ties at all--linguistic, political, etc. We Americans tend to see everything in white and black (no pun intended). To my in-laws I was the "American" and the "Anglo-Saxon". The Slavs are a distinct race of white men and they see themselves that way, even if here in America we no longer pay any attention to the distinction.

Food, language, humor--these can be huge things to overcome. Grandpa's kid is finding her own way, but is being unnecessarily hurtful.

[TheBo]

Yeah, I think the point of the thing is not who she is dating, but how she is carrying on the affair. On the other hand, when one is young and fears censure, sometimes good sense is pushed aside by defiance.

Bo

[galacticchick]

bungalowdweller said:

It is more a cultural thing than a color thing, I would think.

I think you are right. That's a really good way to put it.

bungalowdweller said:

Grandpa's kid is finding her own way, but is being unnecessarily hurtful.

I think this is another issue too. Okay this is what I don't understand. There was an episode where all characters were sitting around the table and saying how wonderful a nation Korea is (no objection from me here) okay, so then why go to a country, thousand of miles from your home if it's such a good nation? And do parents have the right to choose who you can date just because they've raised you? I don't know.

If I were a parent (and maybe that's why I don't get it because I don't have any kids) I would think that it's my obligation to provide my kid with the best possible life (even if that means eating rice and kimchi, but if that's my best, then that's my best) without expecting that much in return: love, respect, obedience, but should I expect to have a say in who you can or cannot date simply because I gave you the food and clothes I was supposed to? I don't know if this makes sense to you all and really I'm not saying that they are wrong or that they are right. I'm just asking a series of questions out loud.

[Lucy]

That's a very interesting statement, GC. Have you ever seen the movie "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?" The original one, with Sidney Poitier, not the remake. It's a pretty heavyhanded movie that has not stood up well over time, but there is one scene that I think is powerful and very true. Sidney's father, a mailman, slogged many miles on his route and sacrificed a lot, as did the mother, and Sidney is now a successful doctor. When he gets engaged to a white girl, all the parents are upset to different degrees. But the mailman father says to Sidney, "I did all this for you, and your mother and I gave up so much for you, and now you're disrespecting my wishes and disappointing your mother, etc." Sidney says something that shocked me at the time but is so true, and it's what you're saying in gentler terms: "I love you and I truly appreciate what you and Mom did for me, and I know I can never repay you. But that's what you were SUPPOSED TO DO. You are the parents and you were responsible for me. And now it's my life to do with as I see fit." I think he even gets worked up about it and says fiercely something like, "stand aside, old man, because you've had your turn, and now I'm going to do what I have to do."

As for WML, I still maintain that "race" is a big factor in the issue for the Kim family, though. I agree that cultural preservation in general is a big part of it, but if the fact that this guy is African American is no more important than if he were any American, why did the writers mention it at all.

[galacticchick]

lucy said:

That's a very interesting statement, GC. Have you ever seen the movie "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?" The original one, with Sidney Poitier, not the remake. It's a pretty heavyhanded movie that has not stood up well over time, but there is one scene that I think is powerful and very true. Sidney's father, a mailman, slogged many miles on his route and sacrificed a lot, as did the mother, and Sidney is now a successful doctor. When he gets engaged to a white girl, all the parents are upset to different degrees. But the mailman father says to Sidney, "I did all this for you, and your mother and I gave up so much for you, and now you're disrespecting my wishes and disappointing your mother, etc." Sidney says something that shocked me at the time but is so true, and it's what you're saying in gentler terms: "I love you and I truly appreciate what you and Mom did for me, and I know I can never repay you. But that's what you were SUPPOSED TO DO. You are the parents and you were responsible for me. And now it's my life to do with as I see fit." I think he even gets worked up about it and says fiercely something like, "stand aside, old man, because you've had your turn, and now I'm going to do what I have to do."

I did see this movie (a couple of years ago) and I do remember that scene you mention. That's what I was trying to get across, but you know me, always mumble mumble and never any real point. But yes, you've put it quite elonquently unni. I guess they are disappointed because to them it seems like she's not completing her filial obligations and to the daughter it's like "what's the big deal, we're just dating, stop making such a big deal about it."

lucy said:

As for WML, I still maintain that "race" is a big factor in the issue for the Kim family, though. I agree that cultural preservation in general is a big part of it, but if the fact that this guy is African American is no more important than if he were any American, why did the writers mention it at all.

That's also a good point and I hadn't thought about that (I feel like a ping-pong ball). I guess it's a little bit of both.

[Lucy]

That's what I was trying to get across, but you know me, always mumble mumble and never any real point.

Are you kiddin' me? I am always thinking to myself, wow, well said, GC--she's one smart cookie. I guess I should try saying it out loud once in a while.

Anyway, the way you put it was equally articulate--you just took fewer words. Of course, anyone could take fewer words than I do to say the same thing.

[TheBo]

Are you two through yet, LOL?

I have to agree that the race thing IS very important for the Kim family, but I think it's partially because it's the "next part." You know, "While you were gone, the cat got stuck on the roof. Oh, by the way, while I was trying to fetch the cat off the roof, I accidentally pushed it off the edge. Oh, by the way, when it fell off the roof it was run over by a car and died. Oh, by the way, your mother was driving the car. Oh, by the way, she ran into a tree and knocked it down. Oh, by the way, the tree fell on the car..." So, Sumi's been a behavioral problem, by the way, she's dating an American, by the way, he's not Korean, by the way, he's black... But I also think she's showing her parents that their opinion does not matter to her in the least, and that's hurtful. You can say all you want about letting your children live their lives, and that's certainly a good thing, but it doesn't mean that some of the choices you make won't hurt your parents, especially if you act as though what they think means nothing whatever to you.

Bo