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Post by Lucy on Apr 4, 2005 10:39:03 GMT -5
Something I don't get about these two. They keep meeting, and he obviously likes her a lot (she's lagging behind a little bit in that department but I'm sure she'll catch fire someday). I mean, the guy makes her a CD that shows what's in his heart, and he stutters and dresses up for his "date" with her (how cute was he jumping around in his underwear?), yet he keeps bringing up that he is waiting for the perfect woman and to be struck by lightning. It seems weird to me that, if it's a case of not being able to see what's right in front of you, he can't connect his excitement over her with his repeated protestations that he hasn't met the right woman yet. Why do they keep saying to each other that they might never meet the perfect partner, even as they keep going out, having meaningful talks, and having sparks fly between them? (when he grabbed her arms in the kitchen, for example.)
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Post by ovaridedis24 on Apr 4, 2005 15:15:20 GMT -5
Who knows, maybe it's those Chicken Eyes of his ;D
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Post by TheBo on Apr 5, 2005 10:18:49 GMT -5
They're both unable to give an inch, it's their stubborn personalities. They can't say, "I like you, I'll abandon my vision of perfection, you're better." They can't say, "You're not my vision of perfection, get out," because they really like each other. I'm interested to see how this develops.
Bo
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Post by Lucy on Apr 5, 2005 11:53:18 GMT -5
They're both unable to give an inch, it's their stubborn personalities. They can't say, "I like you, I'll abandon my vision of perfection, you're better." They can't say, "You're not my vision of perfection, get out," because they really like each other. I'm interested to see how this develops. Bo It's weird, though, how they don't yet seem to be aware that they like each other, given their behavior to the contrary. I know that if I starting liking someone, if I didn't realize it at first, my reiterating to his very face how I was waiting to find the perfect guy would MAKE me realize that the fella in front of me was intriguing. Now, Ji-yeun's position I could see. She probably thinks she needs some rather slick, intellectual guy because her mom is a famous fashion designer (currently in "Mi-la-NOH," dontcha know) and so she can't see that she's really kind of into Chicken Eyes. But him? He's romping around with joy and making CDs for her. (What's next--mix tapes? ) Dumb puppy.
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Post by moreshige on Apr 5, 2005 14:32:39 GMT -5
It's weird, though, how they don't yet seem to be aware that they like each other, given their behavior to the contrary. I know that if I starting liking someone, if I didn't realize it at first, my reiterating to his very face how I was waiting to find the perfect guy would MAKE me realize that the fella in front of me was intriguing. Now, Ji-yeun's position I could see. She probably thinks she needs some rather slick, intellectual guy because her mom is a famous fashion designer (currently in "Mi-la-NOH," dontcha know) and so she can't see that she's really kind of into Chicken Eyes. But him? He's romping around with joy and making CDs for her. (What's next--mix tapes? ) Dumb puppy. Well, the many korean women and some men I know have impossibly high standards. Maybe the dramatist is trying to show that aspect in a relationship. Because I can certainly relate in my own personal life and in so many stories of people I know. For korean-americans I know, it relates to the american dream to the nth degree more so than other americans. They can't just have a nice car or house; they have to have the best. That sense of wanting perfection comes from our korean side or from our parents' generation in our case. Getting a B is not enough, we have to get straight As. Going to college is not enough, we have to get into a prestegious one. It's funny because the majority of americans don't have a college education at all. But you tell that to a korean parent and they'll just ignore you. You ever wonder why there's a drama called "Love story in HARVARD?" I remember once seeing a korean harvard student who had a shirt that read, "Ha-bad-du jot ta". The inside joke is that those words would be what our parents would say to sum up what they think about harvard. "Ha-bad-du" is a bad korean prounciation which implies the proverbial quote from our korean parents. And in relationships, that formula of seeking perfection doesn't work. In one case, I know a gal friend raving about her korean guy friend who treats her with respect, kindness etc. They have fun together, he's rich, he's funny, he's humble, educated, was a professional athlete...These were her words, btw. So I asked her why not hook up with him? She said she would like to, but her mom would object 'because of the big D word' with him..(he was divorced, no kids btw.) The irony is that her mother loves him in spite of the big D. But still she's afriad to commit because she doesnt want to risk her "big brother" and "little sister" relationship. What a load of ****, I say.
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Post by TheBo on Apr 5, 2005 15:30:33 GMT -5
Well, the many korean women and some men I know have impossibly high standards. Maybe the dramatist is trying to show that aspect in a relationship... ...You ever wonder why there's a drama called "Love story in HARVARD?" I remember once seeing a korean harvard student who had a shirt that read, "Ha-bad-du jot ta"...."Ha-bad-du" is a bad korean prounciation which implies the proverbial quote from our korean parents. ... Geez, Moreshige, is there no escape from this circle of insanity? (I'm just joking on your impassioned speech.) I agree, 100%, it sounds crazy. Ha-bad-du being Harvard, what is "jot ta"? As for the unrealistic expectations for relationships issue, don't feel so lonely. That attitude is pervasive in American culture, too. Men who are bald and pudgy believe they deserve a supermodel and will sneer at a nice girl who wants to love and care for them (hence, the indescribably repugnant, "No fat chicks"), while women who go out with "really nice guys" who unconditionally adore them will dangle the guy on a string, waiting for Mr Perfect, or worse, dump the poor fool in a moment for the first bad boy who smiles vaguely in their direction. Shall we go in half-sies on a soapbox rental? Bo
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Post by xelaevoli on Apr 5, 2005 16:18:30 GMT -5
YES!!! The lady who owns the Korean grocery I go to sent her children to prep school (at the tune of 10 or 20K a YEAR!!!!) because they felt it was better than other schools (not necessarily). They are now bragging to everyone that the eldest was accepted into Harvard. (While I mentally rolled my eyes.)
My husband doesn't "hang out" with other Koreans here because he doesn't like their materialism - they're always talking about what they are doing for their children - what they have, where they go, what they do. ...Then again, DH's a free spirit and doesn't care to force his children into the typical K/A mold of super(over?) achieving. The only extracurricular activity our son has is taking violin lessons and that's because he BEGGED us to let him. LOL (Didn't know children's violins were SO expensive!! $600 for a moderate one...ouch!)
But as far as Ji-Eun not admitting she likes Yoon-sik, of course she won't because he's not her "GQ" man. He has those chicken eyes and doesn't meet her ideal image - he acts kind of dumb at times, whereas she acts superior and super smart. I felt that Yoon-sik wouldn't admit it because Ji-Eun wouldn't. Why hurt his pride, if he doesn't have to. (But it's been a (too long!) while since I've seen it, so I could be forgetting some of the exchanges.)
Melissa
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Post by TheBo on Apr 5, 2005 17:03:31 GMT -5
My husband doesn't "hang out" with other Koreans here because he doesn't like their materialism - they're always talking about what they are doing for their children - what they have, where they go, what they do. ...The only extracurricular activity our son has is taking violin lessons and that's because he BEGGED us to let him. LOL (Didn't know children's violins were SO expensive!! $600 for a moderate one...ouch!)... Is that true for Koreans-in-Korea, too, do you think? I think that this type of overt materialism is a problem for many first-generation immigrants, not just Koreans, because that's how they measure what they've done since they got here. As for the price of a violin--yah! I had to help my sister buy one for her daughter who begged for lessons a few years ago; then I bought the brat an electric keyboard because she begged for piano lessons (I love her dearly but she's pretty spoiled) and now, they just lie around not being used. Feh on that. As long as we're chatting here, Missy poo (I'll get a rise out of you yet), have you learned a lot of hangul forms (that is the pictures of words, isn't it?)? Can you recommend some sort of remedial workbook? You know, for kindergartners? I was thinking it would be nice if I could recognize a few of these and translate them, so I thought I'd try learning one or two a week by writing them over and over. Bo
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Post by Lucy on Apr 5, 2005 17:12:39 GMT -5
women who go out with "really nice guys" who unconditionally adore them will dangle the guy on a string, waiting for Mr Perfect, or worse, dump the poor fool in a moment for the first bad boy who smiles vaguely in their direction. Bo Bo dear, I'm with you on the delusional males, because I've heard what some of yer jerkier guys say about women, but even though I'm not a knee-jerk "men are idiots, women are perfect" sort of woman, I've always wondered about the latter stereotype. I'm of the opinion that that's something men say that isn't actually true. You always hear about these women who throw over "good guys" to chase after some abusive Lothario, but I've never heard of a case in real life. I wonder if that's the story the dumped guy tells himself--"I was too nice for her; women only want jerks." Speaking somewhat harshly, I realize, I feel that some men think they're "nice" when what they really are is wimpy. As I think I have AMPLY demonstrated here on these boards (see, for example, my thoughts on Min-jae of OMR and Tae-woong of "Green Prairie), I am no fan of the bad boy. I would love it if some guy were sweet, caring, and gentle, as long as he had a spine and wasn't Mr. Doormat. No motorcycle or infidelity or "air of danger" necessary--just some gentlemanly behavior plus a little bit of flava. Know what I mean? I don't need a puppydog, and I think that's what some fellas think "nice" means.
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Post by Lucy on Apr 5, 2005 17:14:10 GMT -5
About the violins, don't schools lend them out or music shops rent them out anymore? I got mine from school. But of course, that was back when Paganini was teaching in the grade schools.
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Post by moreshige on Apr 5, 2005 18:41:58 GMT -5
Geez, Moreshige, is there no escape from this circle of insanity? (I'm just joking on your impassioned speech.) I agree, 100%, it sounds crazy. Ha-bad-du being Harvard, what is "jot ta"? As for the unrealistic expectations for relationships issue, don't feel so lonely. That attitude is pervasive in American culture, too. Men who are bald and pudgy believe they deserve a supermodel and will sneer at a nice girl who wants to love and care for them (hence, the indescribably repugnant, "No fat chicks"), while women who go out with "really nice guys" who unconditionally adore them will dangle the guy on a string, waiting for Mr Perfect, or worse, dump the poor fool in a moment for the first bad boy who smiles vaguely in their direction. Shall we go in half-sies on a soapbox rental? Bo Let's go half-sie, but you put down the downpayment. True. But in the korean-american context, the guy wouldn't be bald or pudgy or wimpy, as Lucy would put it. He would be "perfect" in every other woman's book except for korean-american women. And don't get me worng, I'm sure this happens the other way around too. It's just that I really believe that korean tastes and standards for anything whether in education, products, and relationships are placed too high or unrealistic. I think it's sort of sad because if a Harvard education and that 2 million dollar house is perfection, at least they're attainable. But in relationships there is no such thing as a perfect person and you'd be dissapointed most of the time. "Jot ta" means "is nice" or " like". So "Ha-bud-du jot ta" means "I like Harvard" or "Harvard's nice!"
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Post by TheBo on Apr 6, 2005 10:33:50 GMT -5
...even though I'm not a knee-jerk "men are idiots, women are perfect" sort of woman, I've always wondered about the latter stereotype. I'm of the opinion that that's something men say that isn't actually true. You always hear about these women who throw over "good guys" to chase after some abusive Lothario, but I've never heard of a case in real life... Weeeeell, shall I give myself as an example? Not that I chased after any abusive lotharios, but I almost didn't give a perfectly wonderful guy a second look because he wasn't my ideal. In fact, if you 're looking for a model of BmB and me, you should really look at Yoon-sik and Ji-eun. Well, I hope we were not that foolish, but it's not far off. And I have to say that I know more than one girl who's dropped Mr Nice for Mr Handsome Creepo Whatwasshethinking. So, yeah, I'd like to say women aren't as stupid as men in these matters, but no, we are. But, just as there are wonderful, caring women who really know what they are looking for, there are men who never make those kinds of mistakes, either. I wasn't trying to say everyone is an idiot in love--I was trying to say, it can happen to both sexes and in any culture. Actually, I am suspicious of any person who says, "I don't understand why I keep losing person after person, because I'm a nice guy/girl. Everyone says they want a nice guy/girl, but reallly, they don't." To that person, I say, "The common denominator in all those failed relationships is you. Maybe you are self-centered, or clingy, or your breath is bad, or you're going after people with whom you're not compatible, but fellah, you'd better start looking at yourself and not thinking you're so perfect, because obviously you're not." Hmmm? 'Cause, Lucy, one woman's "wimpy" is another's "artistic and gentle." Bo
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Post by TheBo on Apr 6, 2005 10:46:02 GMT -5
True. But in the korean-american context, the guy wouldn't be bald or pudgy or wimpy, as Lucy would put it. He would be "perfect" in every other woman's book except for korean-american women... Okay. I just want you to post that guy's vital stats here, along with his phone number, because I know a lot of women here (Lucy?) who would love to give him an opportunity to be perfect. In my many rounds of education, I've had the opportunity to talk with married Korean, Japanese and Chinese women, and the biggest complaint I've heard is that the husband is too "[substitute culture here]"--he's old-fashioned. He's too stuck in the vibe where the man is the man (translation--no help at home, no caring for children) and the woman is the woman (she does all the housework and anything else he doesn't feel like dealing with, but oh, she's a modern woman so she has a job). He's the "perfect" Japanese/Korean/Chinese man. And why not? It works out great for him, why should he change? I forget who was posting on these boards about her father, who was Korean, and mother, who was American born, who were divorced, and how she never understood her father until she went to Korea to visit relatives there. I'm hopeful that the repeal of hoju will cause a cultural shift in Korea itself, to bring women more on an even keel with men, but that has not really happened here, in spite of all our advances in women's rights. Darn. Some jerk is kicking out my soapbox. Bo
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Post by Lucyunlogged on Apr 6, 2005 10:50:01 GMT -5
Okay. I just want you to post that guy's vital stats here, along with his phone number, because I know a lot of women here (Lucy?) who would love to give him an opportunity to be perfect. Bo Yeah, but unfortunately I wouldn't be "perfect" enough for him!
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Post by Lucyunlogged on Apr 6, 2005 10:52:23 GMT -5
Oh, I posted that. It was something published by a woman it turned out I went to school with. Yes, apparently the parents never talked about cultural differences or understood that that's where a lot of their troubles were coming from.
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