|
Post by BungalowDweller on Aug 6, 2005 17:35:45 GMT -5
However, with current capitalism, earth will bring down her knees soon. If every one in the world start driving like an American and consuming energy like an American(this is not american bashing just saying if we have american standard life all in the world), it will just not hold up. will technology save us? Human is the worst thing to happen for earth. Meowmeow, I agree with you here. The "capitalism" of today seems to be devoid of ethical underpinnings. I believe that capitalism without charity is tyranny. Whenever people abandon the faith of their fathers and replace it with a faith in themselves/politics/other men alone, they are doomed to disappointment. I think it was George Washington who said that we are only one generation away from slavery. Americans have grown fat and happy. It is unfortunate that too many of us eat too much, drive too much, and think,pray,or give too little. And I,too, think that this lifestyle of driving is untenable--not only from an ecological standpoint but from a civic and personal view. What kind of life/or view of authentic life do children have when it consists of driving hours at a time for ballet, music, etc lessons? Absurdistan! No one walks anywhere anymore in suburbia because there are no sidewalks in many towns. . .huge problems. We can choose to refuse and resist the incessant drum beat of buy more, buy with credit, buy it now. This was not the "capitalism" of my childhood. There is an old Puritan saying that we put on our refrigerator so we can all see it daily--it goes as follows: "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without." And as my grandmother used to say, "The eye is never satisfied!"
|
|
|
Post by florel on Aug 6, 2005 20:36:33 GMT -5
bungalowdweller : I learn many things from you about Eastern Europe. I always appreciate your valuable and thoughtful comments. Nowadays, the Eastern Europeans, after just having been released from the tyranny of the communism, seem to be exploited by the capitalists' of Western Europe. What a tragedy ! meowmeow : What I regret with the "History & Fiction" thread is that I cannot do it better because I cannot read the Royal Chronicles ( shillok) or other useful scientific works where I'm living and I've forgotten many details. I'm searching detailed informations on the web, but there are mistakes and contradictory statements. I'm trying to "criticize" the informations I get, but it's possible that there are minor faults and I'm trying to make corrections along with spelling mistake corrections. And I think it's 10,000 times better to be a descendant of a slave than to be that of a traitor or a corrupted aristocrat. What I'm "proud" of is not the fact that my ancestors were (or could be) the southerners but the fact that they were so poor and so modest that they couldn't do harm to others and to the country. (I should have used the word "relieved" instead of "proud".) In fact, I heard of the tradition and the history of the family (including its miseries) from my grandmother. She told not only the specific traditions and social etiquettes in southerner families but also the misery and the unhappiness shadowed on family members - the ordinary people, especially women. I remember some gloomy lives of my grand aunts or great grand aunts or great great grand aunts. The genealogical book stuffs ( jokbo) were made for exalting glory of the clan, so they keep silent about women and about the miseries of the family. I regret that I didn't listen more attentively and wrote down what she had told before she was deceased. When I was young, I disliked my relatives who were so stuck on the old traditions and, especially, hated the ancestral cults ( jesa). I was a rebellious girl who made many scandals among relatives with my protesting gestures. I've never felt my father's hometown (the clan of my father has lived in a clan village from the 15th century until the generation of my father) as my own. So I deeply feel disrooted. I'm a typical metropolitan child who was born, grown and educated in big cities. I have no hometown. I've been floated here and there following my father's workplaces or my study and work places. Since I left my country, this feeling of being disrooted has been more and more intensified. So now I envy my parents for having their hometowns. About the jokbo stuff, I got interested in it from an anthropological viewpoint when I became a history disciple in University. How did some privileged clans have retained and reproduced the social/economical/political powers, etc. ? In fact, most of the genealogical books have been largely falsified after the Imjin War period. I've also doubted of my family's one. As my ancestors were very poor, at least, it would be highly possible that they sold theirs. Personally, I think the Korean people got the social equalization by the huge scale falsification of genealogy books. I even consider it as a kind of peaceful social revolution. I'll leave again tomorrow. I should have left Wendsday but I couldn't because I've suffered from dysentery and stomach troubles. I'm ok now.
|
|
|
Post by meowmeow on Aug 6, 2005 22:18:36 GMT -5
Hi, florel. I am enjoying your writing and your euro-korean insight. take care. I know jokbo and that stuff must be on of the biggest obstacle for my parents. My father fell in love with her. They were dong-sung-dong-bon(same clan). It was well kept family secret for my parents family(hehe ) I guess at that time it was a serious thing . That is the one of the reasons my parents did not give a damn about jok-bo. Back in korea, my paster in church was specialized in studying a bible as jokbo point of view. Basically in his view, bible is a family tree of jesus. oh, this was just one random thought. Anyway, I saw your post saying you are reading eco's new book. You must be a super reader. I do not have patient to read his books unless it is homework but I liked his short ones. Does he write interesting poltical articles also? He got to have some insight regarding middle east. oh (sorry for randome thought, it is my bad habit) when you have a chance, watch dae jang-geum. Kim Young-hyeon is amazing writer. It is fiction but she really pulls everything together beautifully. It is very subversive. I am glad that it might have a chance to be shown in iran. Recently, I got hooked with pullmoowon naeng-myun. it is great thing in the package. This thing is helping me go through summer. I hope you can find those brand in europe. Take care.
|
|
|
Post by sunami chun on Aug 6, 2005 23:05:43 GMT -5
Hello Buffalosoldier...i'm kidding, i'm just a litttle drunk from todays barbecue About what you and donilpark says of the northeastern project, i've just said that it is a too conspirative theory because china will never take North Korea (North koreans consider themselves as Chosun real legacy bearers, so china would need to change chosun history's also). When i first read about this project in this very board I also got angry with the chinese government, but as i've said what could we do? Terrorism? Get angry? Cry? Or we should use International organisms to make the world aware that there is such intentions by the chinese and even if they do change everything it will be recorded by world judgement. In the worst scenary the chinese will take this cultural legacy anyway want it koreans or not, but at least it will be recorded by world's supposedly neutral parts, and in a thousand years it won't look like it is a tale that my parents or koreans used to say as we do hear so much in these times and causes biased views. This, i've learned when i read about the silloks, annals of the chosun kings and that they were not allowed to see, and the historians preserved as righteous as possible because it was an instrument of control, since what was writen in those annals were the absolute truth about all the kings actions and they wouldn't want bad records about them and that's why we can say for sure that yi soon shin was indeed a true hero and sonjo was a blind king because documents allowed us to see the truth. When it is otherwise, and you cannot prove anything than any small evidence becomes a material for a wide field of speculations such as i've seen in this board before. Mentioning another hipothesys about the dong-yin people that is possibly the natural ascendants of the koreans and of many ancient chinese dynasties that controlled china, what means koreans have a genetic capability to rule, since there are no scientific evidences or documents it makes such a dangerous hypothesis that anyone is capable of using these kind of informations to create the history needed to serve as excuse for everything....Koreans are not genetically superior to anybody, what they achieved and perfected with so much care and is the real important contribution for humanity in all these 5000 years of history was a real apreciation for confucian doctrine what makes them special for it and every other nation has to find what was ( i use "was" in the past because this modern world values money the most and has forgotten values and ethics) more important for them about philosophical and moral values. Material achievements should be considered also for other people but i place philosophy and the correct thinking beyond any of these material achievements such as scientific ones or architectural ones....Humans apreciate what they have ,what they don't, they envy....and what koreans have achieved in its history in my point of view is confucian doctrine not in books but in daily life. So for me it nows became the measurement cup to compare countries and not anymore the level of scientific development or richness. That's how i want to see the nations and also the people.... But if you see the world as a one big chain of evolutionary happenings as history has been doing, someone has always been in the top while others where being enslaved or colonized or explored. My point of view is based on Jean Baudrillard's (french post modernist philosopher) and also Noam Chomski's perception of the world. For them the stupid actions of the islamic terrorists are in fact a scream about the loss of their culture and everything they believe that has been turning into ashes because of the so called "Globalization" (of course its a beautifull way to say that extremists and people with biased views are willing to fight), that their real morals and values are being loosen, and the upcoming of wicked values represented by the west's and now east's willingness to enrich themselves above all. Something that the east embraced with such faith and are now forgetting old values...Also Islamic world has been so much humiliated with so many crusades and such brutality against them that for many muslims it seems there is no other way then redemption....whatever it takes...Ignorance against Ignorance breed during a thousand years. What helps me couterpoint your views that put europe and asia in the same level. There are many differences about them despite we are all humans. European phillosophy and history shows that even if it had a bright cultural blossom with the greeks, everything was lost until renaissence, between this periods chistianity sprouted and what is a magnificent way to perceive the world with christ's example turned into an excuse for power struggle and ramificated into several churches that believed they had the monopoly of chist's love and their followers money and lands. Catholic Church even became a state and had an army. But why is it that there was so many ramifications and religious wars that spilled even to the islamic world? Christianity was a revolutionary religion and anarchist in its soul, interpretations since documents were hidden allowed different versions to blossom and the anarchist characteristics helped anyone to become the leader of a revolution, caused by what? our friend biased views Differently from Islamic religion that had a political figure, maome or muhammed, that became a dynasty and gave political stability to its followers and little divisions. Budhism with its conformity principle and Confucionism with its respect for authorities. Chritianity had no legacy bearers or political stability mechanisms, it was as pure as what christ said an nothing else "love is the weapon and love will save you" (i am protestant), but for wicked minds a beatifull statement that could mean "use your heart not your mind" It doesn't explain the utmost intolerance that lead to the savageries like the protestant and catholic churches and so many others like the crusades, but it help to understand that Europe was never open to conformity or uniformity and that it also helped perpetuate the segregationist culture. Northern European regions suffers from a harsh winter and had very few fertile plains for agricultural development mostly living from hunting, fishing or collecting because there wasn't also chaloric food that cold be harvested in their climate and rough terrain (potato and corn came from south america in 1500's, rice from asia, the wheat was very hard to grow there), so this small islands of food that could be collected were disputed by force and any foreigner sould be looked as competition, different from latin Europe that with its softer climate and plains like the Po river in today's Italy's made agricultural development possible, and once there was food surplus it raised the need for organization and the advent of government, also in Greece with its sheppards it allowed philosofy to develope (time to think while in ocium). This governmental system guaranteed stability and even commercial trades that brought friendship among neighbours and even miscigenations possible. Latin europe is much more assimilative than northern europe and that's why latin colonizations at least in Brazil permitted miscigenation and made blossom the idea of cultural antropofagism. It happened thru out the world on river deltas such as the yellow and blue river deltas (china-confucionism), the tiger and eufrates's and nile's (islamism), ganges's (budhism). So Northern Europe stayed in the blackness untill the renaissence (latin thing also) and the military revolution and it allowed them to conquer the world, their brutality being for the lack of tradition in commerce and superiority in arms that translated into arrogance and reinforced once more the segragationist culture. So it is commerce that paradoxally established friendship among nations but now with its neoliberal politics is destroying the world culture. For Korea to keep his identity and his independence more than boundaries or lands, or treasures, or scientific improveents it has to know what it believes in, what they want to become.....righteousness and clarity above all, for wicked are all the paths that you choose... I'm sorry if i didn't answer your comments but i've started to write and couldn't stop, i would like to write more but i have to sleep....about my comments i hope nothing of it to be taken as an offense or radically...just tried to show what i think about the world so maybe i don't need to give you an objective answer and you can see my it reflected on you about murders, genocide, brutality, stupidity there are no comments possible only that it happened, happens and always will everywhere in the world if we permit biased views, and that's why history is so important....
|
|
|
Post by meowmeow on Aug 7, 2005 1:29:06 GMT -5
What I most feel envy from US based on living here is neither vast land, money, military etc.
It is reasonability or common sense. I envy Descartes. Eventhough its core is wal-mart loving people but fundamentally they are reasonable(hopefully).
I can see why middle east young people are going that route. If you went through 70's and 80's korea, you felt like this miliatary dicatorship would last forever and so frustrated.You throw stones at them and fireballs at them but it did not feel like it would end.
North and south used each other to govern own people. Enemy are in front of us. We have to regulate you. U.S. revalidated every time another dicator sits in the power against own people. This will be familiar story in any of south america but fortuantely korea did not have oil or valuables for that matter. So people can win over dictaors.
The thing is that democracy was relatively easy fight because who your enemies are and what you need to achieve. Real fight is after that. I hope clear mind and reasonability will guide korea.
too bad Said was dead or good for him he was dead
|
|
|
Post by kinoeugene on Aug 8, 2005 5:51:27 GMT -5
kinoeugene, what are you agreeing with? meowmeow was saying that the incompetance of later kings led to Chosun's downfall, but you're saying that it was Imjin and Byungja wars which left Chosun in a weekened state that led to its eventual downfall, despite the fact that there were great, competant kings like Hyo-Jong, Young-Jo and Jeong-Jo. As I understand it, what you're saying is the opposite of what meowmeow said. well, my poor english might not make sense at all.... Which i agreed was if the kings after Gwanghea-gun "in short term" were as clever as Gwanghea-gun, chosun would not be so weaken after Imjin war. You know, taking a crown from Gwanghea-gun was a conclusion of dirty political power game. And the SeoIn party like Yoon Du-Su enthroned In-Jo after defeating Gwanghea-gun, and that was one of the biggest cause of Byungja war (I mean the king and the party's diplomatic policy). And the Byungja war made chosun more weaken. Even coming clever kings couldn't make chosun enough strong.
|
|
|
Post by TheBo on Aug 9, 2005 13:43:37 GMT -5
Oh, dear, now I've had the time to thoroughly read this thread, I find myself in the position of having to apologize to--was it wiked? Who said, on another thread, that people on this board do not like China because it is communist--and I said he was off his rocker. I find such comments in this thread. However, I still state unequivocally that the people who made those comments are talking about totalitarianism, not communism. [Poor Marx, how far away from his vision of a fair and equal world all that became.] Everyone decries and wants to fight totalitarianism, wherever it occurs, not just in China. Sorry for the non sequitur. Bo
|
|
|
Post by BungalowDweller on Aug 9, 2005 19:54:30 GMT -5
About what you and donilpark says of the northeastern project, i've just said that it is a too conspirative theory because china will never take North Korea. . . So for me it nows became the measurement cup to compare countries and not anymore the level of scientific development or richness. That's how i want to see the nations and also the people.... My point of view is based on Jean Baudrillard's (french post modernist philosopher) and also Noam Chomski's perception of the world. Also Islamic world has been so much humiliated with so many crusades and such brutality against them What helps me couterpoint your views that put europe and asia in the same level. European phillosophy and history shows that even if it had a bright cultural blossom with the greeks, everything was lost until renaissence between this periods chistianity sprouted and what is a magnificent way to perceive the world with christ's example turned into an excuse for power struggle and ramificated into several churches that believed they had the monopoly of chist's love and their followers money and lands. But why is it that there was so many ramifications and religious wars that spilled even to the islamic world? Christianity was a revolutionary religion and anarchist in its soul It doesn't explain the utmost intolerance that lead to the savageries like the protestant and catholic churches and so many others like the crusades, but it help to understand that Europe was never open to conformity or uniformity and that it also helped perpetuate the segregationist culture. in Greece with its sheppards it allowed philosofy to develope (time to think while in ocium). So Northern Europe stayed in the blackness untill the renaissence (latin thing also) So it is commerce that paradoxally established friendship among nations but now with its neoliberal politics is destroying the world culture. For Korea to keep his identity and his independence more than boundaries or lands, or treasures, or scientific improveents it has to know what it believes in, what they want to become.....righteousness and clarity above all, for wicked are all the paths that you choose... Thanks for the thoughtful rant, sunami chun--I'll just reply to a few of your comments. . . 1. Concerning whether or not China would consider taking North Korea---I don't really know but looking at Tibet there is a possibility. 2. I also agree that scientific achievement and richness are as "filthy rags". The heart of a people is what is important. When Rousseau visited America, he later wrote that he believed that Americans achieved what they did not because of any superiority, but because they were a "Good" people. Americans need to rediscover their moral compass. 3. My world view is biblical. 4. The Islamic world started the crusades by murdering Christian pilgrims going to the Holy Land. Christians had been travelling to the holy places in peace for many years prior to the Crusades era. The Moslems murdered Catholic monks at various shrines and demanded payments from the pilgrims for the right to travel unharmed. thus enraging the kings and nobles of Europe from Italy to Bucharest. They resisted diplomatic overtures with the west which resulted in the Crusades. 5. I didn't mean to give the impression that Europe and Asia are on the same level or are the same--As one of European background I can't speak with any authority about the Asian experience, but I can draw contrasts and comparisons with Europeans that may mirror similar struggles in the Asian world. 6. I don't believe that "everything was lost until the rennaissance". The true Dark Ages in Europe lasted from approximately 457 (when the Romans pulled out of Great Britain) until 1000. The Middle Ages, also known as the Age of Faith, was a stupendous time in Europe. The Age of Chivalry, the emergence of guilds, trades, towns, etc. cannot be underestimated. With all due respect to the Greek culture, Greek society was built upon a slave system with the vast majority of people living in Greece without any rights whatsoever. It was the slave society which freed the best of Greece to pursue philosophy, music, theatre, etc. 7. Yes. . .the power struggles in the Christian world were unfortunate when they revolved around politics and power. Yet much of the struggle was about the right of individuals to read the Bible in their own language and interpret it for themselves. The Vatican in Rome no longer had the people of Europe under their exclusive control--people began to think for themselves and they wanted a say in Church affairs. In liberal circles, the Rennaissance is routinely credited for bringing Europe into Modernity, but there are many of us who look to the Reformation instead. . .but that's another rant 8. As many a Messianic Jew (a Jewish person who follows Jesus as Messiah) would tell you, Christianity is not a religion of anarchy. It is based on ancient covenants and laws, and Jesus is the biblical fulfillment of those laws! 9. Oh, so right about neo-liberal politics destroying culture--but in my view, not world culture. They are attempting to destroy the individual cultures of peoples through the destruction of the nation-state, the nullification of sovereignty,etc and the imposition of phony "world culture" through globalism. 10. Righteousness and clarity are needed by all nations if we are to survive. I enjoyed your comments and took no offence at all! Thanks for the thoughts. [modified to repair quote-Bo]
|
|
|
Post by BungalowDweller on Aug 9, 2005 21:33:05 GMT -5
Thanks meow,meow and florel for sharing your family background. Very interesting to a non-Korean such as myself. I have a question that is off-topic (isn't this all off-topic anyway?) Can you explain jokbo a little further from your own points of view?
|
|
|
Post by meowmeow unlogged on Aug 10, 2005 4:21:17 GMT -5
Hi, bungalodweller ;D I will try to explain. Pardon my English. I googled some basic information and translating those basic information. According to historical record, jokbo starts from Goryu. There are records of king’s genealogy but it is limited to king’s family and relatives. Wide adoption and detailed records started from Josun period(around 1400). You can see that it is sort of by-product of political power struggle. Due to Im-jin(1592) and Byung-ja(1636) war, class system itself became unstable. So they developed more elaborate record system of family to regulate system. In modern era till this year, they have house-head and house-register system. So theoretically, you can trace back your family tree up around 1400. You can read about it below link hoju. hunjang.blogspot.com/2005/03/household-head-system-will-be-history.htmlwww.answers.com/topic/korean-nameThis clan oriented and closed-society essentially ended up with perpetual bickering, power-struggle, and lost country. It is also one of the reasons why korea is still one of the largest baby exporters. However, whether I like it or not, it is part of my history and that matters I think. When you see Old Testament, most of description is who bears whom. It is human evolution (hopefully). I think having that individual record is important in many ways and we can give some modern meaning on this record if we individually maintain. Korea is fortunate regarding religion. Historically, there was no major killing under any god’s name. Of course, there are martyrs during early catholic introduction period. It is more related to misunderstanding of Confucius cultural tradition in catholic part. When I was kid, I thought that Islam is worshiping sun or something totally different god and that is why those people fight each other historically. When I find out that they are referring same god, I was so shocked. I saw many bad christian,many bad budhist,many bad catholics, many good christian, many good buddhists, and good catholics. I saw many good people without religion. Back in korea, I saw more and more so-called evangelistic Christians getting isolated from mainstream Korean society. I am Christian but if you see this people, it is possible to imagine how religious war can break out. “evangelistic(?) Christian church” mixed together with capitalism can be very weird in my opinion. [This is not refering to American evangelist church. I can not find appropriate word for it] I wish that American Christian leaders could do more ecumenical conversation and make effort to each religion in modern days.
|
|
|
Post by BungalowDweller on Aug 10, 2005 10:36:21 GMT -5
Thanks meow,meow! Your English is great and I understood everything. I can't wait to study those links you provided. I really appreciate being better able to understand. There is an old saying, she who rocks the cradle rules/rocks(?) the world. As the family goes, the nation goes and hence the world! I am envious of the knowledge about family that so many Koreans have. I cherish every little tid-bit that I remember about my clans. ;D
|
|
|
Post by florel on Aug 19, 2005 20:03:24 GMT -5
Hi, florel. I am enjoying your writing and your euro-korean insight. take care. I know jokbo and that stuff must be on of the biggest obstacle for my parents. My father fell in love with her. They were dong-sung-dong-bon(same clan). It was well kept family secret for my parents family(hehe ) I guess at that time it was a serious thing . That is the one of the reasons my parents did not give a damn about jok-bo. Back in korea, my paster in church was specialized in studying a bible as jokbo point of view. Basically in his view, bible is a family tree of jesus. oh, this was just one random thought. Anyway, I saw your post saying you are reading eco's new book. You must be a super reader. I do not have patient to read his books unless it is homework but I liked his short ones. Does he write interesting poltical articles also? He got to have some insight regarding middle east. oh (sorry for randome thought, it is my bad habit) when you have a chance, watch dae jang-geum. Kim Young-hyeon is amazing writer. It is fiction but she really pulls everything together beautifully. It is very subversive. I am glad that it might have a chance to be shown in iran. Recently, I got hooked with pullmoowon naeng-myun. it is great thing in the package. This thing is helping me go through summer. I hope you can find those brand in europe. Take care. Hi, meowmeow. I hope I can view DJG someday. It seems to be a great drama. And I will search Korean "supermarkets" for pullmoowon naeng-myun. I don't know if Eco wrote an article about the Middle East. I only read his novels and a few of "light" short essays. Umberto Eco's new novel (that I'm reading now) is set in the 20th century. It's an autobiographic novel. So it's more accessible to modern readers even though it's certain that foreigners (even Europeans) cannot catch its deep sense which is only comprehensible for Italians. It's interesting, intelligent (as usual for Eco) and new type novel including many color images : cinema, cartoons, illustrations, etc. Those images help to understand (and feel) the culture of Mussolinian Italy. About the marriage ban between same clan members ( dong sung dong bon), I think it was a stupid custom. My two grandmothers are not only dong sung dong bon but also a little bit near(?) relatives, in fact. They are cousins of the 6th degree ( sip yi chon), i.e. they have same great great great great grandfather. If my two grandfathers had had same great great great great grandfather, my parents couldn't have got married. No problem on female side and only problem when it concerns male side ? Absurdissimum ! Your parents were real revolutionists and very courageous avant-gardes ! I guess the ban is abolished now, but old rats of the Confucian Society ( yu rim) are yelling and contesting not only against the abolishment of the marriage ban between same clan but also against that of hojuje (household system). I guess the latter is also abolished now. You also told about the Bible conceived as a family tree of Jesus. it let me remind of a famous iconographic theme in mediaeval european art : the tree of Jesse. The tree of Jesse - stained glass in the Cathedral of Chartres (12th century)
|
|
|
Post by florel on Aug 19, 2005 20:21:36 GMT -5
I have a question that is off-topic (isn't this all off-topic anyway?) Can you explain jokbo a little further from your own points of view? In addition to meow's posting on Jokbo (genealogy book)... Jokbo is a private clan record which can give historical informations on historical personages and their family relations. It's especially interesting because it offers outlook on the transformation of family concept and on social status of women. In early Chosun period, the jokbo record was not limited on male members. It registered names of the whole family members including descendants of daughters (even descendants of daughters' female descendants). No differentiation between son and daughter. Their names were recorded by chronological order. But it wrote the name of sons-in-law instead of that of daughters. The Chosunese women rarely let their names to the posterity. We don't know the real name of YSS's wife. We can only know her family name and the name of his father. The jokbo was considered as important for consolidating powerful clans' relations obtained by matrimonial relationship. The poor Chosunese women were only considered as a vehicle for reproduction, not recyclable. - Widow's re-marriage was not permitted. This tendency was aggravated in late Chosun period, especially during the 18th and 19th centuries. From the end of the 18th century, it became prevailing to write sons' names first and daughters' later. No more records about descendants on female side and they only wrote the names of sons-in-laws. They even didn't give a record about unmarried daughter. Because there were no names of son-in-law to register. This exemplifies how the late Chosun society consolidated the patriarchal system excluding women's existence. In modern days, I guess jokbo stuff is only meaningful if someone wants to know about his or her family and near relatives, not for glorifying dubious ancestors of four hundred years ago. The jokbo helped me one time in my life when I had to sort out my numerous cousins and to remember their names (my direct cousins and children of my father's direct cousins). They are fifty ! When I met them in my father's home village, I had difficulty to discern a cousin from another cousin and their relations with my numerous aunts and uncles because I rarely met them. I had a cousin who was forty years old and an uncle who was only five years old ! lol It was really scary. In the IYSS drama, we can find some characters who have relative relationship or who belong to the same clan. It shows that political powers were concentrated on some specific powerful clans and that they married each other. And there were also grades between aristocrats. Powerful central aristocrats never had a matrimonial relation with humble local aristocrats. I heard that Yun Du-Su and Won Kyun were relatives. How exactly ? I don't know. But I'm sure that we can know it when we study genealogy books of Yun clan or of Won clan.
|
|
|
Post by kathleen34 on Aug 20, 2005 11:36:43 GMT -5
I saw many bad christian,many bad budhist,many bad catholics, many good christian, many good buddhists, and good catholics. I saw many good people without religion.
Back in korea, I saw more and more so-called evangelistic Christians getting isolated from mainstream Korean society. I am Christian but if you see this people, it is possible to imagine how religious war can break out. “evangelistic(?) Christian church” mixed together with capitalism can be very weird in my opinion. [This is not refering to American evangelist church. I can not find appropriate word for it]
I wish that American Christian leaders could do more ecumenical conversation and make effort to each religion in modern days.
you're so right... I love what you wrote meowmeow... It's so easy and so human to use a wide paintbrush to cover situations... I don't know about other communities, but I know that Oak Park routinely has wonderful presentations at the library. Real people from real places taling about their real expeiriences... it's a very powerful way to thin down the paint brush. One-on-one is a very valuable way to change hearts and minds.
For the past 2 Sundays at my Lutheran church, we had an AdultEd class with panelists representing Roman Catholic and Lutheran perspectives. One of the panelists was a former RC priest and another was a Lutheran professor who taught at protestant and Catholic universities. It was just a wonderful presentation and we all wished it could have gone on for more than 2 weeks.
This particular thread: Korea a chinese vassal state - has provided an outstanding learning experience. Real people sharing their real experiences ... Bless you all!
|
|
|
Post by Obsidian*Gryphon on Sept 4, 2005 8:21:54 GMT -5
I've nothing to contribute/comment here. Just wanted to drop a note to say I enjoy reading all the posts. Very insightful & interesting. Gracias.
|
|