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Post by ID on Mar 7, 2005 19:27:45 GMT -5
"Big-ass", "Sick-Ass", you remind me of me.
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Post by donilpark on Mar 7, 2005 20:26:23 GMT -5
A picture is worth thousand words. Shilla is on the southeast of Korean peninsula, Baekje occupies southwest of Korean peninsula as well as eastern China and southern Japan. Gaya is wedged in between. Koguryo is occupying Manchuria. Of course, this is only at one point in time, and sometimes the territories changed hands many times before Korea was finally unified.
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Post by TheBo on Mar 8, 2005 11:01:02 GMT -5
Okay, you guys are loading me up on info, but are you saying that parts of Japan and China (large parts) were actually Korean nations at some time? I thought "Chosun" was the name for Korea at the time--no, wait, you're not mentioning Chosun at all. And what is the Korean name for the nation(s) of Korea now?
Don't be too concerned about being "off topic"--this IS the tangents thread, after all.
Bo
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Post by mikey on Mar 8, 2005 11:06:29 GMT -5
Although I haven’t been contributing to this thread, I really want to express my appreciation to Temuchin and donilpark for their wonderfully informative posts! I certainly learned some new things while reading through them.
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Post by moreshige on Mar 8, 2005 11:56:12 GMT -5
"Korea" at one time or another wasn't unified. And anyone's who's seen and is aware of the historical background of EWG would know that unified Silla period was drawing to and end when dissonant elements wanting to bring back old Koguryo resulted in the following Koryo dynasty. This was around mid 9th century. Go back a few centuries earlier and you'll see that Korea was divided into several kingdoms. I say kingdoms because they all had the same culture and language. But they were at war with one another at one time or another. In many ways they paralleled China and her dynastic struggles. It was also not too unlike the conflicts you read about the Greek-city states. Athens and Sparta was always at war but when the Persians came, the Greeks united and fought against them. Then they went on fighting each other again. For Korea, similar events were happening between the 3 main kingdoms of Paekche, Silla and Korguryo. Around mid 7th century, Silla made alliances with Tang (chinese) dynasty to defeat Koguryo and Paekche. Then Silla went on to defeat Tang which led to Tang's own dynastic fall. This sort of parallels the Ming dynasty(16th cen) for those of us who are watching IYSS. Because of the vast strain of resources of the Imjin war in korea, the Ming dynasty just collaspsed when the invading Manchus came to town.
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Post by moreshige on Mar 8, 2005 12:20:58 GMT -5
To add, for those of us who are watching "God of the Sea" (Hae-shin) the time is during the Unified Silla period. That is why you see a lot of references to the Tang because the characters are in China going back and forth to Silla. So they are people of Silla. It's also interesting to note that while all the dynastic struggles were going on the korean peninsular proper, there was another korean kingdom to the far north called Parhae. During Unified Silla period not all of Koguryu was subjugated. Most of the northern territory you see on the previous map went to the heir apparent kingdom (Parhae). Parhae was a union of Koguryo elite leaders and their subjects and non-korean peoples.
So in a nutshell: 6th cen. Koguryo, Silla, Paekche, Gaya 8th cen. korean peninsula unified under Silla, Parhae (northern territories of former Koguryo) mid 9th cen. Koryo Dynasty (You can see this as a neo-koguryo dynasty)
As for Japan's relationship with Korea, its more interesting to look at the history before or around the 5th century. Particularly, Paekche's relationship is very special. We can also get into even before 4th century and get into interesting theories that exists among historians about the cultural relationship between "korea" and "japan".
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Post by skinz on Mar 8, 2005 12:23:14 GMT -5
I got a question for those who are korean or those who are expert with Korea. Since Silla won the war and unified the kingdoms(Correct me if I'm wrong.), were the cultures from Korguryo and Paekche merged with Silla? Are were they destroyed? Also I came upon a website that is really fascinating. www.hanja.com/huntribe.htmlSupposedly, the Huns actually came from Mainland Korea.
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Post by Eowyn on Mar 8, 2005 12:24:10 GMT -5
Now, I've spewed out some junk. And this time, really off topic too. But it's such good stuff to spew, donilpark.
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Post by moreshige on Mar 8, 2005 13:24:19 GMT -5
Lol, I'm replying to myself. But this is a question to Dongil and Temuchin. In regards to ancient Japan and Korea, are you familiar with the "horse-rider theory"? In Japan, archelogists have found evidence of two distinct levels of cultures that co-existed at the same time before the rise of Yamato. One was sophisticated with findings of bronze mirrors, farming tools, swords, horse trappings and jewelry while the other was clearly less developed. What was interesting was that the Japanese archelogists noticed the influx of this culture was sudden and abrupt which suggested a massive invasion had occured rather than through mere trade. Historians theorized that this new horse-riding culture quickly took over and centralized their power in western Japan. But the question was who were these people? What's interesting is that many Japanese historians couldn't come to terms that one possibility that the identity of these horse-riders could be "Korean". The implications were huge because if you were a Japanese historian who researched and wrote during the colonization of Korea (1910-45) you had pressure to justify Japan's right to colonize by establishing a "father"(japan) and "son"(korea) relationship . Because if those horse-rider rulers were indeed korean then that would mean the japanese royalty be actually be korean in origin.
It's one thing to say that Japan and Korea shares a similar historical/cultural relationship but you'll be playing a total new ballgame when it comes to suggesting the Japanese royalty have korean origins.
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Post by donilpark on Mar 8, 2005 13:25:15 GMT -5
I got a question for those who are korean or those who are expert with Korea. Since Silla won the war and unified the kingdoms(Correct me if I'm wrong.), were the cultures from Korguryo and Paekche merged with Silla? Are were they destroyed? Koguryo and Baekje culture was absorbed and merged after the unification. I mean, the English name 'Korea' itself derives from 'Koguryo'. (other variants of Koguryo are: Koguri, Kori, Koryo, Kuri, Kuhan, Kuryo, Kauri, etc....) Unfortunately though, Balhae culture, which succeeded Koguryo culture and received influence of Tang Chinese culture, could not be succeeded by Korea. Hwanguk Baedal (Kuri) Choson Northern Puyo Koguryo Baekje Shilla Koryo Choson Hanguk (Replublic of Korea. At present) This is the rough order of major Korean dynasties, with lots of minor ones missing in between. It's interesting to note how Korea's title changed in a cyclical way. For those interested, you'll find a few interesting articles here (including the one about Hun's origin) www.kimsoft.com/2004/go-chosun.htmThere are links to other articles at the bottom of this article. Just take a look at some if interested.
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Post by moreshige on Mar 8, 2005 13:28:51 GMT -5
I forgot to mention that the signifiicance of discovering Japan's royalty could be korean during WW2 is like Hitler finding out that his great-great-great---etc. grandfather's was really Jewish. ;D
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Post by donilpark on Mar 8, 2005 13:32:55 GMT -5
Lol, I'm replying to myself. But this is a question to Dongil and Temuchin. In regards to ancient Japan and Korea, are you familiar with the "horse-rider theory"? In Japan, archelogists have found evidence of two distinct levels of cultures that co-existed at the same time before the rise of Yamato. One was sophisticated with findings of bronze mirrors, farming tools, swords, horse trappings and jewelry while the other was clearly less developed. What was interesting was that the Japanese archelogists noticed the influx of this culture was sudden and abrupt which suggested a massive invasion had occured rather than through mere trade. Historians theorized that this new horse-riding culture quickly took over and centralized their power in western Japan. But the question was who were these people? What's interesting is that many Japanese historians couldn't come to terms that one possibility that the identity of these horse-riders could be "Korean". The implications were huge because if you were a Japanese historian who researched and wrote during the colonization of Korea (1910-45) you had pressure to justify Japan's right to colonize by establishing a "father"(japan) and "son"(korea) relationship . Because if those horse-rider rulers were indeed korean then that would mean the japanese royalty be actually be korean in origin. It's one thing to say that Japan and Korea shares a similar historical/cultural relationship but you'll be playing a total new ballgame when it comes to suggesting the Japanese royalty have korean origins. The less developed culture is called Jomon and the more advanced one, horse rider culture is called Yayoi. Yes, it's generally known that Yayoi culture is the one from Korea. The origin of Japanese royal lineage in Korea is not a big thing either. The emperor Akihito himself admitted to this. english.people.com.cn/200112/24/eng20011224_87391.shtmlIt's not a big secret. It's an open secret that everyone knew about. The way he admitted it just surprised some people.
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Post by moreshige on Mar 8, 2005 13:45:12 GMT -5
Thanks donilpark, I guess 2001-2 is a turning point since this korean wave going on in Japan.
I thought the last part of that article was interesting.
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Temuchin
New Addict
In Theory, Communism Works!
Posts: 3
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Post by Temuchin on Mar 8, 2005 16:07:56 GMT -5
You know Moreshige, there's a rumor that Hitler's mother was actually Jewish ;D
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Post by moreshige on Mar 9, 2005 10:11:46 GMT -5
You know Moreshige, there's a rumor that Hitler's mother was actually Jewish ;D I knew it! ;D
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