generaldu
Senior Addict
The subway charms us so, where balmy breezes blow, to and fro. - Lorenz Hart - "Manhattan"
Posts: 312
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Post by generaldu on Jan 31, 2005 10:31:36 GMT -5
I nominate General "Stormin" Norman Swartzkopf. He is the Patton of our generation but only those who served with him know the extent of his greatness. He got out when they wouldn't let him do what needed to be done. He was a great warrior who had No interest in waging a political war. As said earlier, in 50 years the good ones will be justified and the weasels forgotten. "I am a soldier. I fight where I am told. I win where I fight." George S. Patton While Schwarzkopf's personal heroism and field generalship in several wars is unquestioned his handling of postwar negotiations with the Iraqis was by his own admission unfortunate. By allowing the Iraqis to resume their military helicopter operations he allowed them to suppress uprisings in the Iraqi populace that had been promoted by the U.S. government. The U.S. did nothing to stop the Iraqi military reprisals and this is one factor in the unexpectedly lukewarm reponse that American troops have received during our current operations in that country.
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Post by TheBo on Jan 31, 2005 17:38:11 GMT -5
This discussion is becoming entirely too emotional, and I'm not sure I should have let it go on for as long as it has.
Please moderate your language and make at least an attempt to link your comments to Korean history. ID, you have complained publicly about the tone of discussion on the board. I wish you would take a look at the tone of your comments.
Bo
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Post by ID on Jan 31, 2005 17:45:13 GMT -5
This discussion is becoming entirely too emotional, and I'm not sure I should have let it go on for as long as it has. Please moderate your language and make at least an attempt to link your comments to Korean history. ID, you have complained publicly about the tone of discussion on the board. I wish you would take a look at the tone of your comments. Bo All gone. Sorry, but it is a very weak spot for me. I may have been born and raised in America, but I am still an Israeli at heart, though I don't know any Hebrew.
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Post by MasterCrabby on Feb 1, 2005 5:43:24 GMT -5
One of the things I have always liked about YSS and AOW is that it takes me out of Western traditions. These shows develop without mention of Europe, the Middle Eastern religious heritage, or the Church. It made me feel a certain excitement to enter a world that thinks differently in many ways. Having rapport with diverse viewpoints and interests enriches my life. Granted, I enjoy a spirited discussion, and I always hope for strong and well constructed arguments. They don't offend me, particularly, and I think it's fun to have a challenge now and then, as long as people can get past being so sensitive. It's fine that people question ideas, and I think we should all take an opportunity on occasion to express gratitute to our fellow Americans of all viewpoints for their support of other peoples' welfare in other countries, at some risk and great expense over the decades, notably in Israel. Religion undeniably tends to become about control and conformity, often at the cost of common sense and enjoyment in life. This is no different in the world of YSS, where loyalty so often means a call to violence.
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Post by TheBo on Feb 1, 2005 10:21:32 GMT -5
Thanks, guys. I just don't want things to deteriorate.
Bo
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generaldu
Senior Addict
The subway charms us so, where balmy breezes blow, to and fro. - Lorenz Hart - "Manhattan"
Posts: 312
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Post by generaldu on Feb 1, 2005 12:34:01 GMT -5
This discussion is becoming entirely too emotional, and I'm not sure I should have let it go on for as long as it has. Please moderate your language and make at least an attempt to link your comments to Korean history. ID, you have complained publicly about the tone of discussion on the board. I wish you would take a look at the tone of your comments. Bo While we should not speak hatefully, I think the topic would naturally provoke strong emotions, especially in the current global political climate, and there is nothing wrong with having a vigorous discussion as we share our diverse views on the topic. The question of what makes a great military leader is integral to the theme of The Immortal YSS and since his advocates claim that he is a figure of international standing it would be relevant to look at comparable figures in other cultures. Your implication that we were drifting off topic would sit better if you hadn't introduced Emily Dickenson into a discussion of the world's great military leaders. A better poetic tie-in might have involved Joyce Kilmer or Wilfred Owens, both of whom died in World War I.
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Post by TheBo on Feb 1, 2005 13:00:08 GMT -5
Your implication that we were drifting off topic would sit better if you hadn't introduced Emily Dickenson into a discussion of the world's great military leaders. A better poetic tie-in might have involved Joyce Kilmer or Wilfred Owens, both of whom died in World War I. Funny boy. My "poetic tie-in" involved people who were underappreciated during their lifetimes. Your suggestions may be equally valid on that score; however, you are missing the point. Please remember that it is my job to monitor the conversation and it is entirely my judgment whether it is getting out of hand. My suggestion to "stay on the Korean topic" was merely a device to get you all to cool your jets. I did not especially object to your discussion; I objected to the slings and arrows that were beginning to be flung. You were not "drifting off topic"--you were having a loud, unruly free-for-all. See: deiner.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=generalmsgs&action=display&thread=1101175852and: deiner.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=AdmiralYi&action=display&thread=1098248283Bo
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generaldu
Senior Addict
The subway charms us so, where balmy breezes blow, to and fro. - Lorenz Hart - "Manhattan"
Posts: 312
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Post by generaldu on Feb 1, 2005 13:24:21 GMT -5
Even with the admittedly intemperate language used by some, the characterization "loud, unruly free-for-all" is hardly justified when one considers the comments of all the participants in this discussion. Chilling remarks from the moderator might prove to be unduly censorious. I know Bush is in the White House and the Daleys are running Chicago again but as far as I know the Bill of Rights is still in effect, for the moment. As one of our nation's leading inmates might say "It's a good thing!".
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Post by TheBo on Feb 1, 2005 13:57:39 GMT -5
Even with the admittedly intemperate language used by some, the characterization "loud, unruly free-for-all" is hardly justified when one considers the comments of all the participants in this discussion. Chilling remarks from the moderator might prove to be unduly censorious. Are you trying to pick a fight with me? I am the moderator. I thought the discussion was getting out of hand. It's my right to say so or even to shut down the discussion completely--which, you will notice, I did not do. I will ignore your supercilious remarks about my familiarity with the Bill of Rights. No one is saying you cannot speak; I merely asked you to moderate the tone in which you do it. This is not a political, governmental nor even a public forum. It's a private club. You are required to follow the rules. Bo
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generaldu
Senior Addict
The subway charms us so, where balmy breezes blow, to and fro. - Lorenz Hart - "Manhattan"
Posts: 312
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Post by generaldu on Feb 1, 2005 14:44:14 GMT -5
Are you trying to pick a fight with me? I am the moderator. I thought the discussion was getting out of hand. It's my right to say so or even to shut down the discussion completely--which, you will notice, I did not do. I will ignore your supercilious remarks about my familiarity with the Bill of Rights. No one is saying you cannot speak; I merely asked you to moderate the tone in which you do it. This is not a political, governmental nor even a public forum. It's a private club. You are required to follow the rules. Bo There was never a question of my violating the rules, I was merely trying to provide cover for some our more rambunctious members whose contributions should not be discouraged, lest our communications become unduly timid. And if you construe our polite discussion of these issues as a "picking a fight" then I must take issue with your interpretation in that case as well.
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Post by ID on Feb 1, 2005 14:55:16 GMT -5
Jeez, speaking of the rules, I hope I didn't do anything wrong by starting a Beer conversation before.
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Post by TheBo on Feb 1, 2005 14:55:30 GMT -5
There was never a question of my violating the rules, I was merely trying to provide cover for some our more rambunctious members whose contributions should not be discouraged, lest our communications become unduly timid. And if you construe our polite discussion of these issues as a "picking a fight" then I must take issue with your interpretation in that case as well. My remark about "you" following the rules was general, regarding all of the members, not specific to you, generaldu. Do accept my apology. Your care and concern for the other members is laudable, but unnecessary. Nobody needs to be shielded by you from the evil moderators. Our communications are highly unlikely to become timid. I'm through with this discussion; if you care to continue talking to yourself, be my guest. Bo
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Post by TheBo on Feb 1, 2005 14:56:21 GMT -5
Jeez, speaking of the rules, I hope I didn't do anything wrong by starting a Beer conversation before. Oh, hush, you. Bo
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Post by ID on Feb 1, 2005 14:58:41 GMT -5
Oh, hush, you. Bo Oh, and Generaldu, please stop. It's not going anywere. I already deleted my posts, which included my opinions about a different culture. If let's say, someone of Arabic descent finds his/her way onto this dsicussion, it could be bad. I don't think that Bo was wrong in warning me.
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generaldu
Senior Addict
The subway charms us so, where balmy breezes blow, to and fro. - Lorenz Hart - "Manhattan"
Posts: 312
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Post by generaldu on Feb 2, 2005 9:56:31 GMT -5
Oh, and Generaldu, please stop. It's not going anywere. I already deleted my posts, which included my opinions about a different culture. If let's say, someone of Arabic descent finds his/her way onto this dsicussion, it could be bad. I don't think that Bo was wrong in warning me. Blame is a pickle, dude Upon a gifting pate Whose fable bunts the Rest and not A fecund rhyme is met. (With apologies to E.D. and all poets, living or deceased)
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