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Post by TheBo on Nov 3, 2005 10:38:55 GMT -5
I can only think of one totally demonized, unsympathetic character, and that was the Taiko--Hideyoshi. (Why do we call him that instead of Toyotomi? Isn't Hideyoshi his given, rather than his sur- (family), name?) In any case, there was no justification shown whatsoever for anything he did. He was a totem of evil. The only softness introduced was his feelings for his wife and children, and even that was terrifying rather than touching. I'm thinking this is rather a mistake on the part of the writers. His death scene was supposed to be pitiful, but it was only anticlimactic. I believe that evil people are terrifying because they are human beings, and also that the potential for evil resides in every one of us. (How Calvinist of me.) How sick does it make you feel when someone notes that Hitler loved children and animals? It's the good that casts light upon the nature of the bad.
Man. I think I need to take a philosophy class and get this out of my system.
Bo
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Post by Skinz UL on Nov 3, 2005 10:59:26 GMT -5
I pick King Sonjo. (Why is it that all medieval Korean Kings are such idiots?)
I hated that guy ever since he became grown. When he was a kid, I thought he was going to follow his ideas and try to do something with the power he got. Then he just became lazy and let the ministers strive for power for his entertainment because he knew whatever they did HE still had the upper hand. Then when things got tough and everyone was counting on him, he ran away and hoped someone could rescue him and his throne.
I guess we're so depended on only seeing our good side or our brave heroic side that any notion of weakness get us upset (like me). This statement also goes to YSS. Although the series said that YSS would become "Human", we rarely saw any negative sign of him. Yes, he killed his soldiers to enforce order, but then we just say to ourselves that he's doing it for the good of the country. But when Wakizaka or Won Kyun did the same thing, we tell ourselves that their monsters and evil.
now you got me being philosophical ;D
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Post by TheBo on Nov 3, 2005 13:08:29 GMT -5
I guess I see King Sonjo as being more sympathetic because we did see him as a kid, and it seems clear (to me, anyway) that his problems are due to mental illness. Hey, I just realized, I can't even remember King Sonjo's dad! Wow, this has been a loooooooong story.
That reminds me. What about the king's head eunuch? He's a puzzling character. I used to think he'd be a moderating factor on the king, because of his introduction as a faithful man who collected the rice strewn on the ground instead of letting it be wasted (remember that?), but he's turned out to be quite the wacko himself, going around stirring up the Western faction and feeding the king's paranoia about YSS.
Moi Bo
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Post by ginnycat5 on Nov 3, 2005 14:30:31 GMT -5
I guess I see King Sonjo as being more sympathetic because we did see him as a kid, and it seems clear (to me, anyway) that his problems are due to mental illness. Hey, I just realized, I can't even remember King Sonjo's dad! Wow, this has been a loooooooong story. That reminds me. What about the king's head eunuch? He's a puzzling character. I used to think he'd be a moderating factor on the king, because of his introduction as a faithful man who collected the rice strewn on the ground instead of letting it be wasted (remember that?), but he's turned out to be quite the wacko himself, going around stirring up the Western faction and feeding the king's paranoia about YSS. Moi Bo The head eunuch used to be a good influence, but he became entirely a king's man by the end. Like Won Kyun's 2 underlings-they didn't ever seem to restrain him even when he was SO wrong, they were just his cheerleaders. Yet the survivor of the henchmen became reasonable and helpful to YSS later. Like the Stockholm syndrome, identifying with the authority?
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Post by TheBo on Nov 3, 2005 15:16:28 GMT -5
That's a thought, Ginny. Maybe it goes beyond Stockholm Syndrome (which is going over to "the enemy" because of constant proximity)--when you love or admire someone a great deal, or when you constantly are responsible for their care, it is hard to see them clearly, bad as well as good. (Probably part of what makes childrearing so difficult, LOL.)
Bo
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Post by BungalowDweller on Nov 4, 2005 13:57:41 GMT -5
Concerning the king, I think his descent into Lear-like goofiness has to do with the corrupting nature of absolute power. By the way, did the king really issue another arrest warrant for YSS or was that just dramatic license? Two other characters that were wastes of human potential were seen early in the series . They were the corrupt local official and his cretin son who tormented the young YSS. Remember how the father attempted through intimidation to force YSS to take the civil service test for his stupid, ugly son? They sure thought that threats and money could buy anything! I hated both of them!
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Post by ginnycat5 on Nov 4, 2005 14:52:47 GMT -5
Yes, I had forgotten them. I hope they both got what they deserved!
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Post by Trespasser on Nov 5, 2005 11:22:27 GMT -5
Between Hideyoshi and the King, the King was far worse since he distrusted and tried to kill his own men, whereas Hideyoshi was a rather friendly fellow who gave his absolute trust to his own men.
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Post by navalpower89 on Nov 5, 2005 11:51:20 GMT -5
I honeslty hope that was joke.
Hideyoshi? Friendly?
You must be Japanese...
Hideyoshi was a tyrant. He didn't give a crap about any of his men and had some severe anger problems.
I agree King Sunjo was pretty stupid and a terrible king. But Hideyoshi was just downright EVIL. You cannot compare the two.
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Post by tim on Nov 5, 2005 12:38:35 GMT -5
If Hideyoshi is as evil as u, navalpower89, say then why would the Japanese consider him as one of the greatest heroes ever lived? Hideyoshi's death was seriously exaggerated. He ran around the palace screaming for guards like a retarded maniac, and in the end... he just dies??!! This drama really messed up on his death. If Hideyoshi was that pathetic, then Yi Soon Shin must not have been very good. I mean think about it, would you consider someone who can beat up a toddler to be the strongest man alive? No, you wouldn't. Now, if someone beats up a wrestler or something, then you would probably consider him strong, right? same with this case, if Yi Soon Shin defeated a maniac, then he is nothing special. If Yi Soon Shin defeated a powerful leader, perhaps the strongest in the world at that time, then he is something. ;D
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Post by Trespasser on Nov 5, 2005 13:07:11 GMT -5
You confuse the comical Hideyoshi in IYSS with the real historical Hideyoshi.
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Post by navalpower89 on Nov 5, 2005 14:42:04 GMT -5
I never said Hideyoshi wasn't powerful. Don't twist my words or try to put words into my mouth.
That doesn't change the fact that he was evil. He ordered and wanted the murder of countless Chosunese civilians - women and children included. He allowed his armies to march through Chosun and rape its women at every stop.
Anyone who starts an unprovoked invasion and causes suffering to millions is a harsh, evil tyrant whether you like it or not.
Look at Hideyoshi objectively. The Japanese consider him great because he had a lot of power. The Japanese also don't care and overlook the number of innocent people Hideyoshi has killed to fulfill his murderous desires of world conquest.
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Post by navalpower89 on Nov 5, 2005 14:45:30 GMT -5
And trespasser says somethign about the "real" Hideyoshi?
So I suppose that Hideyoshi was just another innocent, warm-hearted man with love for every human being on the earth right?
He was so nice and benevolent that he marched his armies unprovoked through a peaceful nation (Chosun).
Yes, they don't get nicer than Hideyoshi do they?
I hope you're noticing my sarcastic tone.
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Post by tim on Nov 5, 2005 15:22:15 GMT -5
I never said he was innocent (meaning Hideyoshi). I said the drama shouldn't depict him as some crazy maniac. He may be evil, but he isn't worthless.
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Post by navalpower89 on Nov 5, 2005 18:46:25 GMT -5
I really was not trying to offend you. I just got frustrated when people here seemed to glorify Hideyoshi and compared him to Sunjo.
Sunjo was an utterly useless king but his treachery seems like child's play compared to Hideyoshi's great evil.
And by my book, no matter who you are, if you have millions of civilians killed, tortured, raped, and mutilated, YOU ARE a crazy maniac. I don't care if he was the most powerful ruler ever or some divine power. By my book, if you kill that many people, especially unprovoked, you are a crazy maniac and a worthless one. The drama portrayed him just right.
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