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Post by Lucy on Mar 18, 2005 11:16:32 GMT -5
Lucy, In response to your question about the title of Alain Resnais' 1955 documentary, it came from the ``Nacht und Nebel'' (Night and Fog, natch) decree Hitler issued in December 1941, saying that discordant elements were to disappear without explanation. I don't believe the phrase refers to anything in the Nibelungenlied. I remember being taught at one point that it was a quotation from Goethe, but I can't recall now from which work. ``Erlkonig'' takes place on a foggy night, but the phrase doesn't occur in that poem as such. Incidentally, Resnais seems to have chosen the title for its rhetorical power, not its historical accuracy. His documentary was mostly about the killing camps where the Jews, Slavs and Romany were sent for extermination. The Night and Fog decree, which wasn't fully enforced until 1943, actually didn't apply to those people. Instead, it was aimed at intellectual and political enemies -- mostly members of the French Resistance, the Norwegian Underground and the Italian Partisans. The odd thing is that most of the people rounded up under Night and Fog were merely held incommunicado at the less horrific camps, and were not intended to die. Many of them survived the war. Nonetheless, it's an extremely chilling phrase. Excellent explanation; thank you, effendi! (Your screen name comes in handy there.) I didn't know that. Interesting how all these references come from German culture/history: the Nibelungs, the 3rd Reich, and Goethe. It is a suggestive phrase, and I guess once it came up, they just couldn't get it out of their heads. Bo: Tcha! (extra-emphatic "Yah!") I've been thinking that. Jin-kook must have thought of that; I wonder if that's what he wants, or he just doesn't care?
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Post by hachiue on Mar 18, 2005 16:47:28 GMT -5
(Also, Wagner's opera version of the ring cycle is playing right about now in the civic opera house. How convenient!)
ESM mentioned that his book was based on "that" the other day during the show and it seemed that both she and DD were taken aback.
I don't know about anyone else but I'm hoping that the new producer (the largish guy in the office who was flirting with the actress - I think that's the producer) will start up some problems. The nerve of him to denigrate the boss of the whole operation to his entire staff while he's not there! At least his two helpers from his old office seemed scandalized.
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Post by Lucy on Mar 18, 2005 17:25:15 GMT -5
ESM mentioned that his book was based on "that" the other day during the show and it seemed that both she and DD were taken aback. I completely missed that! How'd she find out? About the producer guy--I half-expected Mr. Lee (is that his name? The right-hand man who's cute except for the hair parted in the middle) to get on the phone to Jin-kook and say, "Boss, hurry back, they're dissing you!"
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Post by effendi on Mar 19, 2005 10:45:02 GMT -5
Gee, if Eun-soo's novel is really based on ESM's family history AND the Nibelungen legends, ESM's clan is even more luridly messed-up than we've been led to imagine. Granted, there is some ill-gotten gold and some real-estate shenanigans, but where's the brother-sister and nephew-aunt incest? And who's Golfer Dad supposed to be -- Alberich? I'm afraid I can't see him as Siegfried, Siegmund or (Valhalla forbid!) Wotan. And if Eun-soo were following Wagner's version, wouldn't it have to end with a world-consuming fire and a flood on the Rhine (transpose that to Han) River? Just wondering.
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Post by Lucy on Mar 21, 2005 10:59:41 GMT -5
Gee, if Eun-soo's novel is really based on ESM's family history AND the Nibelungen legends, ESM's clan is even more luridly messed-up than we've been led to imagine. Granted, there is some ill-gotten gold and some real-estate shenanigans, but where's the brother-sister and nephew-aunt incest? And who's Golfer Dad supposed to be -- Alberich? I'm afraid I can't see him as Siegfried, Siegmund or (Valhalla forbid!) Wotan. And if Eun-soo were following Wagner's version, wouldn't it have to end with a world-consuming fire and a flood on the Rhine (transpose that to Han) River? Just wondering. I think it's only the title that has anything to do with the Ring. You were probably just kidding, though. Yes, Hee-soo's mom has gotten her hands on some of the Rheingold. BTW, I'm not that familiar with the saga, but wouldn't ESM be Loki? I think Loki's in there, isn't he?
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Post by hachiue on Mar 21, 2005 16:04:59 GMT -5
Loki's always involved when there's messing around with gods and men, of course.
I have no idea how ESM found out. This was before she read the book, of course. So I guess if she had been listening to JK and HS, or if JK had just told her out of spite, she would have found out. When ESM and DD were discussing it, they did only refer to it as "that" and I assumed that they knew what the book was about because their attitudes conveyed more shock and dismay than would have been appropriate for JK making a movie about some random book that Eunsoo wrote.
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Post by TheBo on Mar 21, 2005 16:27:54 GMT -5
... making a movie about some random book that Eunsoo wrote. Hah! Now THAT's a title. Some Random Book--has a certain ring to it, eh? Bo
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Post by panther on Mar 21, 2005 23:27:54 GMT -5
and the movie title should be "mediocore movie" starring some random actors that hee-soo drummed up ;D
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Post by TheBo on Mar 22, 2005 10:25:39 GMT -5
Yah, you guys, come down to the comedy club to see panther & thebo, standup for the well-heeled. Hachuie and Lucy have abandoned me...
Bo
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Post by Lucy on Mar 22, 2005 10:53:36 GMT -5
Yah, you guys, come down to the comedy club to see panther & thebo, standup for the well-heeled. Hachuie and Lucy have abandoned me... Bo Me no understand. I do think the last few messages are highly amusing, for the record.
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Post by lizlib on Mar 22, 2005 13:59:16 GMT -5
Hi everyone - been ages since I posted anything But I absolutely had to now that we are coming deliciously close to the end of this awful k-drama. I started watching immediately after OMR. I did not always like mean granny or evil aunt or agree with how the characters 'lived' their lives. But, in retrospect, at least there was sense to most of the storyline! When I realized that just about all the comments I wanted to make about MPC were negative, I figured I would stop posting, both here and on the Phila. board. I was so mad I couldn't even laugh at some of the stupidity of the characters/writing. And I did not want to offend anybody with a constant negative attitude. But I realized that it is, after all, only a tv show, a work of fiction - just like Eun-soo's Pulitzer-class first novel!! And we are sooo close to the end and these writers are sooo bad in selecting plots, building stories and/or developing characters! I can't contain myself In the Phila. area we have about 29 epis. left. Quite frankly, Scarlet, I don't give a d#@% about what happens to these 'people' even though I have already invested so much time I still feel compelled to watch until the bitter end. Someone earlier asked what was left to resolve - maybe that was you, Lucy. I agree. Generally all the storylines (or what there was of them) have been resolved in some way. There is no one who is precious in this story, few who don't appear to be dysfunctional ( and they are only the extras!)and several who seem to have gone round the bend! And in some cases I found the acting also wanting with some of the main characters. I am sooo looking forward to the non-exciting conclusion and to the beginning of the next drama. Whew! I am sorry if I have offended anyone, but I had to get out this sour opinion I have of this show. As the thread says "I ask you!" - when is the new one coming? Liz
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Post by panther on Mar 22, 2005 16:17:08 GMT -5
lizlib,
im soo with you on that one, this show is draging but it started out so great in the begining. do you know what show is replacing mpc in philly?
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Post by lizlib on Mar 22, 2005 16:22:42 GMT -5
Hi panther - I seem to recall that the show was entitled "My Adorable You" or something like that. I don't want to say that anything else HAS to be better but Isure have some hopes for it! Are you in the Philly or Chicago area? Liz
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Post by Lucy on Mar 22, 2005 17:12:42 GMT -5
Hi, Liz, No shame in being mad at MPC. However, I seem to be in a minority which doesn't feel any more strongly about this one than about others--OMR, for example. I don't think it's any worse than OMR. I take no offense at your deriding MPC, though! They are all equally dumb to me. I figure, this is just a soap opera after all, not a nighttime drama, which should have higher standards. I just go along for the ride and enjoy a glimpse into a fictionalized world of Korean everyday life. On another subject, regarding last night's episode, why would Jung-ae get so mad at Eun-soo's new wife for not thinking of helping in the kitchen? She was obviously absorbed in the book. If Jung-ae wants help she should tell her DIL to get in there, rather than being passive-aggressive about it. Silly lady.
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Post by lizlib on Mar 22, 2005 17:20:44 GMT -5
Lucy - you're right. What I can't figure out is why, if I so disliked this show, did I feel compelled to continue to watch it? Go figure! As for Jung-Ae already complaining about her new DIL - I agree! She is silly. Clearly Eun-soo had to DO something to get that money he gave her. So why not look at what he did - i.e. read the book! And, why not just screech upstairs to Jung-hee to tell her to come down and make dinner? Sheesh! These characters have no minds let alone ability to read them! (hee hee)
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