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Post by seven stars on Oct 26, 2007 9:47:22 GMT -5
Battle of Red Cliffs should be interesting. I recently got the Chinese TV version of Romance of the Three Kingdoms, on DVD! Some DvD players won't play it, even though it is coded region one, so!?!? I decided to think American and go for the lowest quality DvD player and VIOLA! Plays like nobodies business! LOL! It's horrible to have to think like that, but that's the way too many things are right now. I look forward to Red Cliffs, but I have no clue if it will be shown over here in the States or what, any clue Seven Stars? I hear you about the quality woes Geese. How do you like the series? I haven't heard anything definitive about the movie. Having said that, my expectation is that it will appear in select theaters. If Curse of the Golden Flower can show here in the states, they had better put the largest budget historical epic in Chinese History in at least a few American theaters.
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Post by geesehoward4ever on Oct 26, 2007 22:20:08 GMT -5
I LOVE IT! AND, I really enjoy the acting! The casting was GREAT, and my favorite is Tsao Tsao! The actor is great, too bad I don't know how to read any Chinese! Nihao! LOL! I know that Mao, means cat... and Nihao. I used to know how to say I love you in Chinese but I didn't know what dialect it was at all, and... I've since forgotten! LOL! We learn languages too late in America, its bad to start at 9th, 10th grade! You should learn other languages around 4th and 5th at the latest.
I'd defintely like to visit China one day and follow the trail of my favorite ROTK Hero/Villain, Tsao Tsao! Curse that Liu Bei and Sun Quan for getting in the way of Unification under Tsao Tsao! I can only imagine what China would be like if he would have unified all of China! Actually, I included it in Lady Yoma. Books can be great to toss out "what if's". Like What if; Ui-Bang didn't get killed by Chung Kyun and survived the attempt because Ui-Min actually followed orders and came back to the city, just as Chung Kyun was still trying to find him on the mountain? I took that, and spun into Lady Yoma's history, it was a blast!
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Post by seven stars on Oct 29, 2007 8:06:15 GMT -5
Nihao Geese,
You can say "I love you" Chinese by saying... "Wo Ai Ni". That's just in basic Beijing Mandarin.
I have to disagree with you on both Tsao Tsao and Yi Ui-Bang (especially Yi Ui-Bang).
Tsao's own kindgom of Wei collapsed within less than a generation of his passing. Further, Wei's direct descendant kingdom of Jin was short lived as well. It seems to me that if Tsao were truly capable of being an effective unificator and emperor then his own kingdom would have stood a bit longer. That assessment may be unfair however, especially in light of the fact that the "Qin" empire proper was also short lived and Qin Shi Huang is often held up as one of the greatest leaders of any military period in history (and just as crazy as any of them as well). All that said, no criticism can dispute the fact that Tsao was clearly positioned the best for expansionary purposes and was probably the best administrator of the three main kings in SGYY.
My understanding of Yi Ui-Bang and of the entire period portrayed in "Age of Warriors" is purely extracted from my watching of the tv series itself. I have no historical background knowledge of that time period in Korea. Having said that it's my opinion that Yi Ui-Bang was destined to go down in flames at the hands of a rival. It really doesn't matter that Chung Kyun finally became his killer because if he hadn't conspired to murder Ui-Bang someone else would have. So it is with all who gain their authority through purely violent means. Too many enemies are made that way. Perhaps our current U.S. foreign policy architects could benefit from considering that reality as well.
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Post by geesehoward4ever on Oct 31, 2007 16:31:37 GMT -5
Nihao Geese, You can say "I love you" Chinese by saying... "Wo Ai Ni". That's just in basic Beijing Mandarin. I have to disagree with you on both Tsao Tsao and Yi Ui-Bang (especially Yi Ui-Bang). Tsao's own kindgom of Wei collapsed within less than a generation of his passing. Further, Wei's direct descendant kingdom of Jin was short lived as well. It seems to me that if Tsao were truly capable of being an effective unificator and emperor then his own kingdom would have stood a bit longer. That assessment may be unfair however, especially in light of the fact that the "Qin" empire proper was also short lived and Qin Shi Huang is often held up as one of the greatest leaders of any military period in history (and just as crazy as any of them as well). All that said, no criticism can dispute the fact that Tsao was clearly positioned the best for expansionary purposes and was probably the best administrator of the three main kings in SGYY. My understanding of Yi Ui-Bang and of the entire period portrayed in "Age of Warriors" is purely extracted from my watching of the tv series itself. I have no historical background knowledge of that time period in Korea. Having said that it's my opinion that Yi Ui-Bang was destined to go down in flames at the hands of a rival. It really doesn't matter that Chung Kyun finally became his killer because if he hadn't conspired to murder Ui-Bang someone else would have. So it is with all who gain their authority through purely violent means. Too many enemies are made that way. Perhaps our current U.S. foreign policy architects could benefit from considering that reality as well. At the time of Ui-Bang's death, per AOW's the only "people" that wanted him dead was the Chung Clan and their slim little slice of deserters. If you remember, when he died, EVERYTHING IN THE MILITARY GROUND TO A HALT! One of the unintentional things that AOW's does at times, is NOT SHOW YOU and REMIND YOU, that the Warriors had fallen to the positions of basically organized slaves, who can kill you! LOL! Not very smart to disrespect the very people you train to defend your borders, secure your Imperial House, so-on-so-forth. It needs to be remembered, THAT, needs to be remembered the most. They had been stripped of their dignity, their pride and they had NO MEANS of upward mobility. So they were paid peanuts, uneducated, talked down to as well as somehow so unimportant that during Ui-Jong's reign, EVEN MUBY could somehow do things to them that were so enraging that EVERY LAST WARRIOR WANTED HER DEAD!!!! So, that needs to be remembered that they seized power, because the few GOOD MINISTERS, like Minister Moon, were TOTALLY IGNORED! I mean Ui-Jong, the show opens in the midst of a blizzard, and even the Imperial Attendants are freezing to death and one falls out and gets carried by Ui-Min. This was a situation that the arrogant and educated, forgot that these warriors, these soldiers, are also PEOPLE. And people have hopes and dreams and need to be valued and respected. They were trained to give their lives for the state, and for the country, the people, and their Emperor. But they were held in no regard, NOT LOW REGARD, but NO REGARD! And that is just like begging for a mutiny! Andddd he got one, LOL! Because he forgot this his authority was maintained because people decided to honor it regardless of whether or not he deserved it. A true sign of someone NOT seeing the reality of the situation. So when Ui-Bang died, remember, the whole military lost its morale. They had to cease fighting at West Capitol, and Cho We-Chong, ugh! NO WAY would I have agreed to a cease ANYTHING! Those gates woulda opened up and they would have thought it was the movie Gladiator! WITH RUSSEL CROWE! LOL! Or maybe Training Day, with Denzel Washington! Because King Kong wouldn't had NOTHIN ON ME! Confused Koryo warrior "HOW'D THAT BLACK DUDE GET IN HERE!?!?" Time Traveling Black Dude who supports West Capital Rebels "THEY'RE DEMORALIZED, AAAAAAAAATTACKKKKKKKK!!!!!" So, while Ui-Bang did become a tyrant in the end, his cause and reason for revolting was actually lightyears past due. The House of Wangs had become the House of Haughty and pride always comes before a big fall... As for the Tsao-ster! HE WAS THE MAN, and that was the problem. It is no different than the Zhuge! Zhuge Liang was the Man, but his son was not. Same with Liu Bei, he was the man, his son was just a jelly donut eater who sold the kingdom down the river. Now Zhang Fei and Guan Yu, their children would continue their legacy right and proper, as Proud Pappa's Son's with Swords and Serpent Spears! If you can say that 10x's fast, then you... cannot be human and I am calling Homeland Security ASAP... hold on a second... I'm on hold... blasted Homeland Security! Worse than OJ trying to find the Real Killers! But seriously though, in uncertain times, stability is a crap shoot. The dice may land in your favor, and it may not. Even the Evil One, Jongkahn the Advisor and Human Sith Lord said it best that "Those who found new kingdoms and stability in times of turmoil, rarely survive to witness the prosperity of their works." Of course this creeped out Eunbu, but it is actually true. When this country won the American Revolution, George Washington tried desperately to get people to NOT FORM political parties and the like, and he tried very hard to avoid all of these things even though he was the first president of the United States. He was often caught-up in things that he did not like and often ran counter to the things that the original participators in the Revolution, wanted to make laws and amendments around and for. If you read up on his views about politics you will find that many of his predictions have now become painfully true and our country is paralyzed by political backscratching and special interest while a city like Philadelphia, can't even make gun-laws for itself and somehow, someone wanna tell me how Harrisburg ended up being the State Capital!?!? Tsao Tsao's kindgom was named Tsao Wei during his time in honor of his deeds and with the approval of the puppet Emperor, but he understood politics far better than Tsao Pi. Tsao Pi missed his chance to unify the land under Tsao Wei and THAT, more than anything, hastened the end of Tsao Wei, because that future never took place thanks to his blunder. As for Sima Yi's son's Jin Empire floundering. I knew they would not last when his son allowed Deng Ai and his son to be killed unnecessarily after they had pulled off one of the Greatest Military Feats in Human History, when they took Cheng Du. When I read that such a valuable man, was allowed to die due to Zhong Hui, who was already suspect. But to allow Deng Ai and his son to die like that, isn't exactly a good sign to me...
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Post by seven stars on Nov 2, 2007 8:13:10 GMT -5
You are a writer of considerable stamina Geese.
As I said, I'm not as far from you on Tsao as I am on Ui-Bang (speaking as if I know the two of them personally).
Had Ui-Bang survived Chung Kyun's attack on his life there was an entire room full of people who were vying for power. All or none of them could have been considered his enemies at different points of time. Further, even the Archfiend came within a few steps of taking Ui-Bangs life at one point. This unstable situation is best demonstrated by the way in which some of Ui-Bangs own officers turned him in once the Chung play was in motion.
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Post by geesehoward4ever on Nov 2, 2007 18:01:36 GMT -5
You are a writer of considerable stamina Geese. As I said, I'm not as far from you on Tsao as I am on Ui-Bang (speaking as if I know the two of them personally). Had Ui-Bang survived Chung Kyun's attack on his life there was an entire room full of people who were vying for power. All or none of them could have been considered his enemies at different points of time. Further, even the Archfiend came within a few steps of taking Ui-Bangs life at one point. This unstable situation is best demonstrated by the way in which some of Ui-Bangs own officers turned him in once the Chung play was in motion. Good Evening from Philadelphia! Ahhh, mmm-hm, stamina... constitution... FORTITUDE! And the Halls of Justice! YEAH! Well Seven Stars I'm an insomniac. So while you sleep, I, the Geese-ster, am WIDE AWOKE... like the Guardian of Gotham City, I reign down justice, protect the innocent, the powerless, the helpless... Wait that was Knight Ridder! LOL! Let's GET RIGHT TO IT! Ahhh, can't you hear the infamous bassline theme... of KNIGHT RIDDER! Set to this phantasmic score from the 80's, I, the Geese-ster, shall put together a dissertion of monumentally profound proportions with typos A-PLENTY!!!! Geese Howard... a lone voice of justice... in the cold vacuum of internet cyberspace... BEHOLD! Ui-Min's fate was foretold by his former master Ui-Bang when Ui-Bang asked him "What is his ambition?" Ui-Bang, proceeded to tell Ui-Min that he, Ui-Min, was a warrior. And as such, he should avoid getting into politics and stay IN THE MILITARY. How ironic, that Duduel would push for Ui-Min to rise as the Imperial Dragon, but often times disappear and not give the kind of council that a man, A KOREAN MAN, and that is important to remember. Madam Bu-young, in AOW's, was a very able advisor, but this drama is set in East Asian, ancient Korean times. Women, had very SPECIFIC roles, very SPECIFIC amounts of power and influence due to the cultural/societal expectations, of that time. So while Bu-Young always gave Ui-Min sound "advice", due to the nature of the society at that time... that's all it was. Duduel, as an able bodied advisor and MAN, should have never inspired Ui-Min if he was NOT going to stand by his side and help guide him from illiterate (sp) to educated. It is clear that although Ui-Bang was supposed to be as uneducated as they were, he often times seemed to be fully aware of what he was reading and doing, which Chung Jung-Bu often noted. Ui-min was going to take Ui-Bang's life, because he had begun to listen to Duduel who was telling him one thing, while Ui-Min's obligations were to Ui-Bang. It is due to Duduel's interference, that Ui-Min begins to start acting irratically. As I stated on page one, long time ago, far far away. Cho Won-Jung lost whatever honor or pride he had, when he opted to call out the archers, and kill Che Won. Che Won's DEATH, is DIRECTLY TIED TO CHUNG JUNG-BU'S INTERFERENCE, at least in the drama. If you rememberSong Yu-In, tried to bring up how Ui-Bang OWED THE CHUNGS, for the fact that he had saved him from Che Won's trap. Chung Jung-Bu IMMEDIATELY TOLD HIM TO SHUT UP about that, because he knew if Ui-Bang realized that he had specifically TOLD Chung Jung-Bu, STAY OUTTA THIS! Jung-Bu knew that by sending his son-in-law, it would drive an impossible wedge between Che Won and Ui-Bang, and HE HAD TO HAVE THAT! Chung Jung-Bu had the smallest faction of power, he needed to have them fight amongst each other. This is shown time-and-time-again. The Imperial House was the pie, if you will, of this entire circular chart. But because they have no power, they have no actual representation on the pie chart itself, they literally ARE THE PIE CHART and these MILITARY GENERALS are vying to see who can control them. So it is the same as the Ten Eunachs who seized control of the Latter Han Court, but these guys here can kill you dead. The distrust arose because of greed for power and it started ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AND WHAT CEMENTED THAT DISTRUST?!?! The final straw was the choice of the new Prince to become Emperor. This is where a lot of interesting what if's could come in and didn't because Dae Ryung was killed by Chung Kyun. So I wanna be clear that Ui-Bang, supposedly Yi Ko, but definitely Che Won, wanted to restore authority to the Imperial House with a REAL RULER! Chung Jung-Bu and his cronies? Hmmmm, they voted to have Dae Ryung ousted and they were fearful of him having them killed for treason, but the reality was that they had gone from the outhouse, to the Penthouse, in A HURRY! And they had no interest in giving up their new found power, and what was the first thing Jung-Bu's supporters did? They started having parties and ki-saengs as soon as the chance took place! So while I know how Ui-Bang ended, I also acknowledge how he began and what caused him to degenerate. Again, my earlier point about women. Muby demonstrated time and again that she was one shrewd woman, but her shrewdness was driven by her bitterness, and resentment of however she was treated when she first came to the palace. Her constant whispers in Ui-Bang's ears, mirrored that of Duduel in Ui-Min's ears and if you remember when Ui-Bang was trapped inside the palace YET AGAIN, both Ui's "unofficial advisors", ADVISED THEM to kill each other. But you tell me who it was that IMMEDIATELY PUT HIS FOOT DOWN AND SAW THE FOREST FOR THE TREES! It was Ui-Bang, and he made it clear, over-and-over, AND OVER! Remember Chung Jung-Bu tried REPEATEDLY, to get him to give up the Archfiend for killing the Deposed Loser... and he refused, with it eventually costing him his life. Meanwhile, look at how Ui-Min wavered, faltered, and eventually DISOBEYED HIS MASTER and it cost him his life because those people who sat at the Central Committee? They were numerous THERE, but their power in the ACTUAL MILITARY, was a 1/3rd of a 1/3rd of a 1/3rd! And they always hemmed and hawed about, CONSTANTLY... never mind that they were too chicken to call Ui-Bang out and simply face him... which was the irony in Ui-Bang's death when he told Chung Kyun that he didn't even have the guts to face him, so how could he protect the Imperial House... And that is really where everything ends at. Corrupt or not, misguided or not, BRUTAL, or not. Ui-Bang, if he WANTED TO destroy the House of Wangs, he could have done so at ANY TIME. And it was that remaining core of who he was, the soldier that had sworn brotherhood with Yi Ko and Che Won, who then became a POLITICIAN and KILLED or LET THEM, get killed. The man who wanted a woman who was absolutely DESPISED by EVERYONE, and in its own way, which makes AOW's unique, for all of Muby's manipulativeness, she was often times left twisted up and turned around by the fact that she had finally found a man that could handle her, and more importantly, she could not simply manipulate him and then smile about it to herself like she could with Ui-Jong. So although she may have "been the Emperor's favored consort", she didn't finally find true love for her until she became involved with Ui-Bang. I had often stated on the Wang Guhn Forum, that perhaps if some of these women would have been able to enter government service, they would not have been so eager to either interfere in their husbands lives because they have no voice except through him...
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Post by skinz on Nov 12, 2007 11:43:15 GMT -5
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Post by tinkerbell on Nov 12, 2007 12:33:25 GMT -5
Awesome pics skinz. Thanks.
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Post by seven stars on Nov 12, 2007 13:45:23 GMT -5
Skinz,
You have got to be the man!
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Post by seven stars on Nov 12, 2007 13:48:28 GMT -5
How about getting interested Philly, Jersey and NYC folks together somewhere in North or Central Jersey to watch this movie when it comes out?
Anyone game?
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Betz
Junior Addict
Music/Dance, Travel, World/Culture, Fashion History/Costuming
Posts: 154
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Post by Betz on Nov 12, 2007 14:38:52 GMT -5
Wow - thanks for the pics Skinz 7S - great idea... I am interested Betz in Philly
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Post by skinz on Nov 13, 2007 12:08:10 GMT -5
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Post by seven stars on Nov 28, 2007 9:30:28 GMT -5
I'm very fired up about this film!
Geese, by your reasoning wouldn't Sima Yi be viewed as superior to Cao Cao?
Just thought I'd ask.
7S
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Post by seven stars on Dec 7, 2007 11:41:09 GMT -5
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Post by seven stars on Jan 29, 2008 9:55:48 GMT -5
Ui-min was going to take Ui-Bang's life, because he had begun to listen to Duduel who was telling him one thing, while Ui-Min's obligations were to Ui-Bang. It is due to Duduel's interference, that Ui-Min begins to start acting irratically. As I stated on page one, long time ago, far far away. Cho Won-Jung lost whatever honor or pride he had, when he opted to call out the archers, and kill Che Won. Che Won's DEATH, is DIRECTLY TIED TO CHUNG JUNG-BU'S INTERFERENCE, at least in the drama. If you rememberSong Yu-In, tried to bring up how Ui-Bang OWED THE CHUNGS, for the fact that he had saved him from Che Won's trap. Chung Jung-Bu IMMEDIATELY TOLD HIM TO SHUT UP about that, because he knew if Ui-Bang realized that he had specifically TOLD Chung Jung-Bu, STAY OUTTA THIS! Jung-Bu knew that by sending his son-in-law, it would drive an impossible wedge between Che Won and Ui-Bang, and HE HAD TO HAVE THAT! Chung Jung-Bu had the smallest faction of power, he needed to have them fight amongst each other. This is shown time-and-time-again. The Imperial House was the pie, if you will, of this entire circular chart. But because they have no power, they have no actual representation on the pie chart itself, they literally ARE THE PIE CHART and these MILITARY GENERALS are vying to see who can control them. So it is the same as the Ten Eunachs who seized control of the Latter Han Court, but these guys here can kill you dead. The distrust arose because of greed for power and it started ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AND WHAT CEMENTED THAT DISTRUST?!?! The final straw was the choice of the new Prince to become Emperor. This is where a lot of interesting what if's could come in and didn't because Dae Ryung was killed by Chung Kyun. So I wanna be clear that Ui-Bang, supposedly Yi Ko, but definitely Che Won, wanted to restore authority to the Imperial House with a REAL RULER! And that is really where everything ends at. Corrupt or not, misguided or not, BRUTAL, or not. Ui-Bang, if he WANTED TO destroy the House of Wangs, he could have done so at ANY TIME. And it was that remaining core of who he was, the soldier that had sworn brotherhood with Yi Ko and Che Won, who then became a POLITICIAN and KILLED or LET THEM, get killed. The man who wanted a woman who was absolutely DESPISED by EVERYONE, and in its own way, which makes AOW's unique, for all of Muby's manipulativeness, she was often times left twisted up and turned around by the fact that she had finally found a man that could handle her, and more importantly, she could not simply manipulate him and then smile about it to herself like she could with Ui-Jong. So although she may have "been the Emperor's favored consort", she didn't finally find true love for her until she became involved with Ui-Bang. I had often stated on the Wang Guhn Forum, that perhaps if some of these women would have been able to enter government service, they would not have been so eager to either interfere in their husbands lives because they have no voice except through him... Don't disagree about the women Geese. Thank goodness that they can take a more significant place of influence in todays west. Hopefully that trend will only continue (I mean that as a value statement, not necessarily a political one). However, I think the central theme of AOW was this idea that power most often alters the righteous cause and corrupts the well intentioned (and I use that term loosely in Ui-Bang's case). He may have started out with the intention of installing a more healthy regime, but as his position and influence developed both he and his intentions were changed. He went from seizing power to accomplish a just cause to scheming and plotting in efforts to preserve the power that he had gained. Kyung Dae Sung was a very clear demonstration of my assertion. He was faced with three choices: 1. Compromise his integrity just as ALL of the other characters who rose to power in AOW had done. 2. Flee the political scene in favor of living simply and in obscurity therebye preserving his life. 3. Remain in a position of influence without compromise knowing that it would likely lead to a premature death at the hands of another. Obviously he chose the latter. And as I stated, he was the only one who maintained his integrity all throughout his part in AOW. You can love Ui-Bang and the others for their strength, ingenuity, foresight, etc. But among AOW's characters you can only uphold KDS for integrity and righteousness in the face of power.
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