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Post by Maalii on Jan 16, 2005 12:35:25 GMT -5
Starting 2/5 in SF (and subtitled, too), Japanese TV will be showing a historical drama on the most romanticized (and tragic) of all Japanese warriors, the legendary Minamoto Yosh_tsune (had to do that because the language editor converted it to Yonutsune last time). If they do even a half way decent job, this will be an awesome series. I know the LA area and likely the Seattle and NY markets probably have a Japanese TV channel and there may be other US markets as well (I'm sure Hawaii also has a channel) and it is likely they are on a somewhat different schedule than the SF folks (just as our Korean channel is). Anyhow I suspect this one will be worth watching.
My overall impression of Japanese historical dramas (having watched about 20 of them) is that they are in a similar vein as the Korean ones (ie what you would call a "military romance"), but they are not nearly as well done (AOW and YSS being my two points of reference)--if one used the Korean dramas as a standard, I'd call the Japanese ones "lite" (ie like the beer) in comparison. Still, I think nearly any show on Yosh_tsune would be worth a look.
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Post by ID on Jan 16, 2005 16:34:03 GMT -5
I wish we had this in New York. It looks itneresting. Almost everything i've seen about Japanese history, takes place in Sengoku Jidai, or WW2. Myamoto is a very interesting person, and I would love to see a show about him.
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Post by Maalii on Jan 16, 2005 21:05:23 GMT -5
I wish we had this in New York. It looks itneresting. Almost everything i've seen about Japanese history, takes place in Sengoku Jidai, or WW2. Myamoto is a very interesting person, and I would love to see a show about him. Are you sure you don't get this in NY? In general the biggies here are first shown in Japan or are shown around the same time (similar to KBC in Korea and the airing of their shows in the US). At the time such shows are out, the magazines (from Japan) are full of features on these series (I've seen these in Japanese book stores in J-town), and they usually touch off a memorabilia craze, if you will, back in Japan. I recall, for example that there was supposed to be all sorts of interest in everything that had to do with Mori Motanari when they did a series on him (something like 6 or 7 years ago). Yosh_tsune is in an another league entirely and I suspect this one will be huge. There are a lot of overseas Japanese folks working in NY and the station there (or stations?) cater to them. I think they'd go ballistic if the Yosh_tsune series showed back in Japan but not in NY. I will be interested to see how they end the series. Will they play it straight (ie the generally accepted historical way)--he is forced to kill himself and family when betrayed by Fujiwara Yasuhira who was sheltering him from Yoritomo? Or will they go for one of the many legends--there are as many and as varied Yosh_tsune escapes legends as there are alleged UFO sightings. The NHK series on Hiraizumi (on the fascinating history of the "northern capital" of the northern Fujiwara), that aired over ten years ago, had Yosh_tsune faking his death and vanishing out the back door never to be seen again. |
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Post by seven stars on Jan 17, 2005 0:58:42 GMT -5
Looks good. However, Philadelphians are the least cultured of the cultured (as far as cultural programming goes). In other words, of those who will get an opportunity to see it, you can count on us to be the last.  Only joking WYBE. I am very grateful for the opportunity to view this type of programming.  |
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Post by skinz on Jan 19, 2005 18:30:17 GMT -5
That's great but sadly japanese series are not shown in NYC. Well, they do show drama series, but without subtitles and only programming from Fuji TV. I did some research and found some pics of the series.   (the scenery here is great)      The official website is here: www3.nhk.or.jp/taiga/I'm not familiar with the Gempei War between the minamotos and the Tairas (since the history of Oda Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, and Togukawa tends to dominate japanese history among westerners) , but one scene I would love to see is the battle of Dan No Ura. The sight of the Taira soldiers jumping to their deaths and the blood covering the water would make a beautiful and emotional scene. |
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Post by Maalii on Jan 19, 2005 19:45:10 GMT -5
That's great but sadly japanese series are not shown in NYC. Well, they do show drama series, but without subtitles and only programming from Fuji TV. I'm not familiar with the Gempei War between the minamotos and the Tairas (since the history of Oda Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, and Togukawa tends to dominate japanese history among westerners) , but one scene I would love to see is the battle of Dan No Ura. The sight of the Taira soldiers jumping to their deaths and the blood covering the water would make a beautiful and emotional scene. Wow, I guess for once I don't feel so abused for being in the SF Bay area (on account of our unreliable Korean station). Our NHK programming also comes via Fuji TV as well but we are fortunate enough to have subtitles. Regarding great battle scenes, there are actually three biggies (among many) that stand out in Yosh_tsune's campaigns. Danoura is, of course the climactic one that is pretty much the last act for the Taira, but two others are perhaps even more striking. The battle at Ichinotani, in which Yosh_tsune lead a force of crack cavalry down what appeared to be an impossibly steep slope to completely surprise the Taira positions on the beach/shore. This resulted in the defeat of a much larger force. This battle is so famous and described so photographically in the Heike Monogatari that when I saw the NHK trailer for the Yosh_tsune series, they didn't have subtitles but I knew instantly from the opening scene who the series would be about (the trailer opened with Yosh_tsune on horseback looking down the cliffs onto the Taira positions). Another spectacular military exploit is his surprise attack on the Taira stronghold of Yashima where his boldness and decisiveness caught the Taira offguard and made them panic even though they had hugely superior numbers. But the flip side to Yosh_tsune's battlefield brilliance is his tragic last 4 years in which he was essentially running for his life from his implacable older brother Yoritomo. There are many legendary accounts of his escapades leading to his last stand in Hiraizumi (and of course lots of legends concerning different outcomes of that last stand). By the way, if you'd like a very poetic and dramatic account of part of Gempei war (the Danoura scene is especially moving), I highly recommend the English translation of the Japanese military romance, the Heike Monogatari. The English translation now in print is titled the Tale of the Heike. My favorite scene has always been the demise of Minamoto Yoshinaka (Kiso no Yoshinaka) and his great retainer Imai on the battlefield--it is a classic warrior scene. |
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Post by skinz on Jan 19, 2005 22:01:54 GMT -5
Is the Heike Monogatari the same work where the imperial grandmother took the child emperor and drown themselves because they didn't want the Minamotos to gain the Sacred Mirror,right? So sad.  Man, I knew these things so long ago. I used to be a HUGE fan on the history of the samurai class and their battles. I'm still am but other interests caught my attention. I need to obtain my knowledge back ASAP. And the famous cliff event was this,right?  |
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Post by Maalii on Jan 20, 2005 0:14:59 GMT -5
Is the Heike Monogatari the same work where the imperial grandmother took the child emperor and drown themselves because they didn't want the Minamotos to gain the Sacred Mirror,right? So sad. Man, I knew these things so long ago. I used to be a HUGE fan on the history of the samurai class and their battles. I'm still am but other interests caught my attention. I need to obtain my knowledge back ASAP. And the famous cliff event was this,right? Yes, the grandmother and child emperor drowning at Danoura is in the Heike Monogatari and the photo you have is no doubt the descent at Ichinotani. |
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Post by Maalii on Feb 7, 2005 0:17:02 GMT -5
Just another note about the Yosh_tsune show which opened last night. The time frame overlaps quite a bit with AOW--it starts and ends a bit earlier than AOW. The show opens with the Heiji uprising (1160) with results in the defeat of the main Minamoto clan by Taira Kiyomori and the death of Yosh_tomo, the father of the then infant Yosh_tsune and the teenage Yoritomo. One would presume it will end with Yosh_tsune's death in 1189. Of course there are other parallels in that Yoritomo establishes the first hereditary miltary dictatorship (Shogunate) in 1185 just as Chunghon does eleven years later.
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Post by skinz on Feb 7, 2005 17:30:17 GMT -5
Man, I really want to see that show. So how is it? |
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Post by Maalii on Feb 8, 2005 1:16:09 GMT -5
Man, I really want to see that show. So how is it? The first episode was pretty good, although not nearly a match for YSS Ep. 1 or (from what I heard) AOW Ep. 1. The actual opening of the drama was the charge down the cliff in 1184 before they flashed back to him being an infant--after which it looks like the drama will proceed in forward chronology. The whole set up of the cliff scene was superb. It was exactly as I had imagined it from the Heike Monogatari (was it actually filmed on the location of the battle? I don't know). This match of imagination to what I saw on the screen reminded me of how closely the physical settings of the Lord of the Rings films matched Tolkien's descriptions. I had hoped they'd show a bit more of the Heiji uprising because it was so convoluted in actual history, but they cut into it after the defeat of the Minamoto. Looking at the previews, I am a bit disappointed at the choice of actor for the adult Yoritomo (won't be appearing for a few episodes, depending on how many episodes the childhood part takes)--he looks way too mild (he's also clean shaven instead of having a goatee) compared to the cold-blooded ruthless appearance depicted in the most famous painting of him. Overall though I think this will be a good show, although I do not expect it to be on the same level as the great Korean dramas. Having watched something like 20 or more Japanese historical dramas (all medieval warrior dramas), I haven't seen anything that came remotely close to AOW which was the first Korean one I saw. Interestingly enough, my favorite Japanese drama of all time aired about twelve years ago and it overlapped in time with this one--it covered the rise and fall of Hiraizumi, this interesting "northern kingdom" if you will and it covered the period from about 1050 to 1189. Yosh_tsune is sheltered in his youth in Hiraizumi then eventually flees there after Yoritomo decides to have him killed. He was killed there (actually committed suicide) in 1189 when attacked by forces of Hiraizumi lord Fujiwara Yasuhira, the grandson of the guy (Hidehira) who took him in. The early part of that drama (the 1050-1060+) was the best part as it had such great warrior characters such as Fujiwara Tsunekiyo, Abe Sadato, Minamoto Yoriyoshi and his awesome son, Yoshiie (Hachiman Taro). In any case I'm hoping that after all is said and done Yosh_tsune will become my new favorite among the Japanese dramas. We'll see. |
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Post by skinz on Feb 8, 2005 16:12:59 GMT -5
The whole set up of the cliff scene was superb. Hopefully you taped it. I am a bit disappointed at the choice of actor for the adult Yoritomo (won't be appearing for a few episodes, depending on how many episodes the childhood part takes)--he looks way too mild (he's also clean shaven instead of having a goatee) compared to the cold-blooded ruthless appearance depicted in the most famous painting of him. Yeah, I think its some pop star that plays him if I'm correct. I heard that's what they did with shinsengumi also. They brought some pop stars to the cast to appeal to the younger audiences. Overall though I think this will be a good show, although I do not expect it to be on the same level as the great Korean dramas. How so? I haven't had the pleasure of seeing japanese historical dramas. But from watching period movies, the japanese do some great work. Is it the script writing? The acting? Or just the overall feel it? I watched some Chinese historical dramas and the overall feel just don't fit. Having historical aspects thrown out the window for more entertainment isn't something I enjoy. (which is why I wanted the Mijin and YSS mess to finish and get back to historical moments) |
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Post by Maalii on Feb 9, 2005 1:48:08 GMT -5
Hopefully you taped it. Yeah, I think its some pop star that plays him if I'm correct. I heard that's what they did with shinsengumi also. They brought some pop stars to the cast to appeal to the younger audiences. How so? I haven't had the pleasure of seeing japanese historical dramas. But from watching period movies, the japanese do some great work. Is it the script writing? The acting? Or just the overall feel it? I watched some Chinese historical dramas and the overall feel just don't fit. Having historical aspects thrown out the window for more entertainment isn't something I enjoy. (which is why I wanted the Mijin and YSS mess to finish and get back to historical moments) I think there is the tendency for the Japanese shows to make their characters more black and white than the numerous shades of gray that we had in AOW, for example (and the numerous shades of gray are what I like so much from RTK). Thus in shows featuring Nobunaga, they have tended to white wash over many of the atrocities he committed. The most recent show from that era (on Maeda Toshiie) was better in that it had really had Hideyoshi's malevolent side on full display and they had that Hideyoshi character become increasingly irrational with time (an earlier show on Hideyoshi really glossed over his bad points). I also think that the Japanese shows in general tend to aim for a kind of cheerier overall feeling than is really appropriate for the subject matter. I think the dark overall mood of AOW, is fitting for any show about a grim warring era. Shinsengumi had some good points, but they made it far too cheery for a show about what amounted to the last of the samurai (in a setting in which they are really dinosaurs) led by a leader whose rigid adherence to the samurai way both made him a model samurai (even if he was of humble origins), but a doomed man as well. Only toward the end did that show (with Kondo Isami's doom approaching) did darker moods prevail. I guess the way Kondo Isami was portrayed is a good example of what I think is deficient with Japanese dramas: Throughout the show, he is portrayed as someone of high character who attracts both warriors and warrior-intellectuals who predict great things for him--part of his character was supposed to be that of a far-seeing individual. Yet instead of espousing a truly progressive/revolutionary stance, as would be befitting of someone far seeing and smart, such as someone like Sakamoto Ryoma, Kondo chooses to be leader of what amounts to an elite hit squad protecting the interests of the Shogunate in Kyoto. Moreover, although, paying lip service to the value of new ideas, technology and the like, Kondo and his colleagues, although running what amounts to a military organization, refuse to use anything but swords in combat. This works for assassinations but not for pitched battles. Now let see, didn't Nobunaga first demonstrate the military superiority of the gun by decisively beating Takeda Katsuyori at Nagashino in the 1570's, nearly 300 years before Shinsengumi was still trying to fight guns with swords? It isn't until the very end that Kondo and his cohorts concede that "the era of the sword has ended" (dudes, it ended 300 years ago). That doesn't sound like someone who is intelligent and is likely to win a following with intellect and character. In any case, from the standpoint of dramatization, it seems that in the effort to paint the protagonist in the best possible light, the writers just seemed to have slipped up--To me I'd much rather see the flaws as well as the virtues of a character. That is what truly makes him or her human. In any case, I'm not saying that the Japanese dramas are lousy. No, I enjoy them quite a bit--otherwise I wouldn't have watched 20-some-odd of them. However, after having seen AOW and now watching YSS, I see that there is a much higher level of writing and dramatization. By the way, getting back to Shinsengumi, there sure were some memorable characters, though. Saito, the supercool, hyperbada-- assassin guy. He was like the super cool expert swordman in Seven Samurai (the guy who ends up getting shot toward the end, as I recall) but much darker. I think he's my favorite character on a Japanese drama since Minamoto Yoshiie. It was kind of nice to see in the "post mortem" narration of Shinsengumi (that told the real life fate of all of the characters still alive when Kondo was beheaded) that he survived the upheaval of the times and ended up as a policeman in the new regime, apparently living to old age. I was sure rooting for that guy to survive the show. |
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Post by skinz on Feb 10, 2005 15:57:24 GMT -5
So basically, they never show the "human" side of japanese history. Such as powerful leaders making mistakes, military leaders making blunders in lilitary campaigns, etc.
I can understand that feeling. That's why I love the movie Seven Samurai. Kurosawa showed samurais as people with real emotions and real affairs that everyone else have. I like the scene when Mifune character shows anger to his fellow collegues about how samurais treated farmers. It showed that most samurais weren't these great warriors that behaved like what is presented to westerners.
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Post by seven stars on Feb 10, 2005 16:56:57 GMT -5
Got to be the greatest movie of all time. - "Seven Samurai".
"The Magnificient Seven" which starred Yule Brinner, Steve McQueen, James Coburn and none other than the ID's favorite Charles Bronson (the ugliest Jewish...) - It was based on "Seven Samurai". So, not only is it the top film of all time, it also inspired an American classic as well.
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