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Post by Seoul Calibur on Jun 16, 2004 15:53:44 GMT -5
I disagree that Myung-joo does not love her husband. I think she loves him very much; we've seen lots of phone conversations pointing to that. I think he's the same type of rapacious, ambitious person that she is, and they are ideally suited to each other. Otherwise, he would not trust her to handle these very important deals for his/their company. Bo Unfortunately, some of us do not have that innate ability to measure a person's feelings of love for another (in this case, Myung-joo and her hubby) based on several phone calls...  If anything, I think Rainbow Prez seems to have deeper feelings for her than the other way around...he tells her he misses her and wants to see her...I don't recall Myung-joo saying anything similar..... They may be cut from the same cloth, but I would have to say that Rainbow Prez putting her trust in Myung-joo does not necessarily mean she is always trustworthy.... It is all a matter of perception really, and that alone does not always reflect reality.... I think her hubby was out of the loop when it came to her initial behind-the-scenes plotting against Joyland....Rainbow Prez vetoed her suggestion to purchase the Joyland shares belonging to Myung-joo's brother, because Rainbow Prez thought they weren't a good investment....Instead, the shares ended up with Peter Kang.... |
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Post by Mac the Knife on Jun 18, 2004 9:18:05 GMT -5
My, my, here we go again. How tiresome. "These" women! So scary when they are competent. But, oh, how we need them.... We need *MORE* competent people, which is not limited to just women....We could use more "competent men too....  Except that the so-called "ludicrous, archaic, assertions" were not meant to refer to just women...It just so happens that we were discussing Myung-joo and her situation. There are so many examples both in fiction and in real life involving men who marry in order to further their other goals....(we even see it in storylines from previous TV dramas....) . I seem to recall in YH, I thought that Sang-min originally dumped longtime GF Ja-young because he saw a GOLDMINE of an opportunity in marrying Min-joo...and it wasn't about love either....She's the new president of the company where he worked as planning director, succeeding her father.... I have to agree with Seoul Calibur. Unless we have some special extra-sensory ability, we cannot tell how other people feel about their spouses/romantic partners just by simply observing their phone calls.... |
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Post by TheBo on Jun 18, 2004 9:48:23 GMT -5
You cannot tell what people feel by listening to their phone calls. Given. However, how do you measure what is going on on a television show? By what people say. On the phone, Myung-joo has frequently said, "I love you, I miss you," when speaking to her husband. (You may not have heard it because of your problems dealing with strong women--oh, I'm permitted a few catty remarks.) She has never hung up and said to herself, "What a bother. Why does he annoy me so much?" as she has with other characters. If the writers wanted us to think Rainbow Aunt did not love her husband, I think they would have made it clear to us, because they certainly have made clear to us all her other thoughts and opinions. I think my inference is reasonable about her relationship with her husband. She's not a good person. A not-good person can still love their spouse.
Bo
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Post by Lucy on Jun 18, 2004 9:58:59 GMT -5
Just wanted to back you up, Bo. I've heard her say she missed him, too. He loves and misses her, and, human nature being what it is, he probably loves her for those qualities we hate. He probably sees her as strong, smart, loyal, and tough, which she is. He probably doesn't see her as evil and vindictive and unrelentingly negative, which she also is. Plus, she's pretty and well-put-together (horrible pseudo-Chanel outfits notwithstanding), and it's easier to take a hard person who comes in a pretty package.
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Post by Soju on Jun 18, 2004 19:58:13 GMT -5
I think he just realizes that he'd BETTER be good to her, if he knows what's good for him!  |
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Post by Mac the Knife on Jun 22, 2004 8:34:45 GMT -5
You cannot tell what people feel by listening to their phone calls. Given. However, how do you measure what is going on on a television show? By what people say. On the phone, Myung-joo has frequently said, "I love you, I miss you," when speaking to her husband. Seoul Calibur got it right , saying it was all a matter of perception, and that alone does not necessarily reflect reality....You acknowledge that we cannot tell how people feel by simply listening to their phone conversations, but in my opinion, how we see and understand these TV characters, indeed, reflects how we view people in real-life....I don't see myself rushing to form an objective opinion about someone else based such limited ovservations. I normally reserve judgement until I know more about a person or even a TV or film character, rather than just on the basis of a few encounters or scenes....In the case of Myung-joo, I attribute my opinion based on a number of factors, including her cultural background, her past experiences, etc....Her phone calls have had limited impact on how I view her as a character...Sure, she may love her husband....After all, anybody can love a rich spouse who provides him or her with a great deal of wealth, status, and power.... Gee, are we guys permitted to make catty remarks too? LOL. Seriously, I do not ever recall anyone, even in jest, ever saying that I have had problems with strong women....I do recall delusional people having problems with me, though...heheheheheh. Myung-joo does not dislike her husband; as I said before, she probably loves him too, but cerrainly not in the same way Yu-jin loves Min-jae, or say Yu-ri loves Dong-Pyo, but in this drama, Myung-joo and her hubby's relationship is not fully explored, because it is not integral to the major storyline....after all, Myung-joo's husband has not even shown his face yet and it is unlikely that we will ever see him....He is just a voice on a phone....I wonder, if hubby were not super rich, and just a regular guy, would people like our Rainbow Queen would even give him a second glance, much less marry him.....Maybe or maybe not...but whatever the case may be, I have expressed a number of valid points, whether you agree with them or not.....and I didn't have to make any catty remarks either...heheheheheh. |
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Post by TheBo on Jun 22, 2004 9:49:52 GMT -5
Seriously, I do not ever recall anyone, even in jest, ever saying that I have had problems with strong women....I do recall delusional people having problems with me, though......but whatever the case may be, I have expressed a number of valid points, whether you agree with them or not.....and I didn't have to make any catty remarks either Well, since we're being picky here, I addressed my "catty remarks" to Seuol Caliber, not you, Mac. Unless you are the same person? Or maybe you are the one who is delusional?  You are missing my point. I'm not saying I have some "innate ability" to judge others based upon a few phone calls. I'm saying that the writers of this show have given us ample evidence of Rainbow Aunt's feelings for every person to whom she speaks on the phone, just by use of her remarks, inner and/or spoken, after she hangs up (and the faces she makes--those are hilarious). The fact that they do not provide such remarks after she hangs up with her husband is, prima facie, evidence we are to take her conversations with her husband as valid. It is NOT a matter of perception. The writers are giving us information; you, IMO, are simply allowing your disgust with her character to interfere with your judgment in this matter. She is more complicated than you are trying to make her out to be. Bo |
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Post by Seoul Calibur on Jun 22, 2004 14:24:43 GMT -5
Well, since we're being picky here, I addressed my "catty remarks" to Seuol Caliber, not you, Mac. Unless you are the same person? Or maybe you are the one who is delusional? I consider it an honor for anyone to suggest that Mac and I are the same person...and I hope Mac feels the same way... Now, regarding Myung-joo, some have taken issue with the comments from Mac, Redstone, myself and others regarding her feelings for her husband...Yet, Myung-joo herself has been known to say some very nasty statements such as accusing Min-jae of being an opportunist, out to seize control of Joyland for himself, and she has attempted to poison the mind of Yu-jin, Yu-ri, and Kwei-boon, as well.... Nevermind that she may actually believe everything she says, but she seems so obessed with of her own righteousness, and her sense of mission that she is apparently incapable of thinking that she could possibly be wrong in this case... And no, I have to disagree with you again Bo, there is nothing complicated about this lady....There are so many just like her in our world, you just have to look..... |
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Post by TheBo on Jun 23, 2004 8:18:45 GMT -5
Now, regarding Myung-joo, some have taken issue with the comments from Mac, Redstone, myself and others regarding her feelings for her husband...Yet, Myung-joo herself has been known to say some very nasty statements such as accusing Min-jae of being an opportunist, out to seize control of Joyland for himself, and she has attempted to poison the mind of Yu-jin, Yu-ri, and Kwei-boon, as well.... Yes, but again, what does her obvious lack of personal integrity have to do with her feelings toward her husband? It appears to me that you have decided she does not love her husband solely on the basis of her actions toward other people on the show. What she says about Min-jae is not equal to what she feels about her husband. I stand by my previous statements. If the writers wanted us to think she does not love her husband, they would have done so in the ways that they using to tell us how she feels about other people. They do not; therefore, she must love her husband. And no, I have to disagree with you again Bo, there is nothing complicated about this lady....There are so many just like her in our world, you just have to look..... I don't have to "look" to know that you are using a false premise. Because a character on a soap opera is wicked and one dimensional, then women "like her" are wicked and one dimensional? Why, because you do not like Martha Stewart (pulling a name out of the air ), whom, I dare to assume, you (and I) do not know any better than you know Rainbow Aunt? You must admit that real people in real life are not that simple to define, not ever. As it happens, I do not agree that this character is completely flat and shallow. If she was, you would not be getting so worked up about her. She's not fabulously deep and well-written (like, say, Lady Choi on DJG), but she is certainly layered (probably mostly due to Kyun Mi Ree's efforts as an actor). Bo PS to Mac: You "guys" did make a catty remark about me. See: Unfortunately, some of us do not have that innate ability to measure a person's feelings of love for another (in this case, Myung-joo and her hubby) based on several phone calls.. Miaow. |
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Post by XB70 on Jun 24, 2004 22:06:02 GMT -5
PS to Mac: You "guys" did make a catty remark about me. See: Unfortunately, some of us do not have that innate ability to measure a person's feelings of love for another (in this case, Myung-joo and her hubby) based on several phone calls.. Miaow. My dictionary defines "catty" as being "slyly malicious" or "spiteful." I detect a mild form of sarcasm in Seoul Calibur's remarks, but I see no evidence of malice or spite..... Personally, I think both sides of this issue have expressed valid points to back their respective positions, but I still have to side with Mac on this one.... |
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Post by TheBo on Jun 25, 2004 9:30:25 GMT -5
My dictionary defines "catty" as being "slyly malicious" or "spiteful." I detect a mild form of sarcasm in Seoul Calibur's remarks, but I see no evidence of malice or spite..... I don't know--seemed to me, he was saying I was delusional as to my abilities. That's a little spiteful. I used the term "catty" to indicate a less censorious view, "catty" being a commonly used, jesting reference to cruel or gossipy remarks, and in light of these previous conversations with Mac and Seoul Caliber regarding "catty" remarks. I'm sure they got my drift. Bo PS - My dictionary also defines "catty" as an 'Asian unit of weight generally equivalent to 1-1/3 pounds avoirdupois'--shall we go further with this? |
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Post by Mac the Knife on Jun 25, 2004 18:00:42 GMT -5
I don't know--seemed to me, he was saying I was delusional as to my abilities. That's a little spiteful. I used the term "catty" to indicate a less censorious view, "catty" being a commonly used, jesting reference to cruel or gossipy remarks, and in light of these previous conversations with Mac and Seoul Caliber regarding "catty" remarks. I'm sure they got my drift. Bo PS - My dictionary also defines "catty" as an 'Asian unit of weight generally equivalent to 1-1/3 pounds avoirdupois'--shall we go further with this? Actually, I have never referred to you as one of those "delusional" people, since I have never personally met you before, and likely never will.... But certainly outside this forum, I have known and met with those who seem to think far too highly of themselves, and they have gotten highly upset when I have "pierced their bubble" so to speak.... I actually found it quite amusing when you directed your "catty" remarks at me, stating that I have a "problem with strong women", whatever that means, and this because I don't subscribe to your views about a certain TV character, nor believe that we can judge a person or character based on phone conversations, however you interprete the writers' intentions........ This all reminds me of the tale, "The Five Blind Men and the Elephant." Btw, the writers have given us a lot of background info about Myung-joo enough for people to develop some sort of educated opinion, or at least speculation, on what kind of person she is or even how she views her husband, and that is how I form my own opinions about people in real life, based on a variety of information.... |
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Post by Seoul Calibur on Jun 25, 2004 20:27:49 GMT -5
Yes, but again, what does her obvious lack of personal integrity have to do with her feelings toward her husband? It appears to me that you have decided she does not love her husband solely on the basis of her actions toward other people on the show. Umm...could you please kindly point out in this thread where I said that Myung-joo did not love her husband? I do recall saying that "he seemed to have deeper feelings for her than the other way around.... " I agree with Mac when he said that the writers provided us with a lot of background info to work with, and if you were to look at the earlier posts by Redstone, Papa Bear, and Mac, you would know what we all mean...we all share the opnion that Myung-joo sees marriage more as stepping stone to acquire more wealth, status, and power....It doesn't mean that she necessarily does not love her husband, but considering how we view her character, we don't think she would have hooked up with Rainbow Prez if he were down and out, instead of being a multi-millionaire CEO.... Whatever feelings of love she has for Rainbow Prez, I doubt it is comparable to how Yu-jin feels about Min-jae, or how Yu-ri loves Dong-Pyo...... And another thing, the fact that she accuses Min-jae of conspiring to take over Joyland, and of marrying Yu-jin to forge an alliance with Dong-pyo against Hyun-kyu, means that she not only understands the meaning of a "political marriage of convenience", she too can be accused of the same action........ "Wicked and one dimensional...." Those are your words, not mine...You are attributing me with statements or ideas that I have never made in this thread. What gives? And I never made any generalization such as you claim.... There are some that are, and there are some that are not..... No, contrary to "being worked up", I was simply making an observation based on how she came across on this show....I think my observations are perfectly valid! |
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Post by redstone911 on Jun 28, 2004 6:29:59 GMT -5
Yes, but again, what does her obvious lack of personal integrity have to do with her feelings toward her husband? It appears to me that you have decided she does not love her husband solely on the basis of her actions toward other people on the show. What she says about Min-jae is not equal to what she feels about her husband. I stand by my previous statements. If the writers wanted us to think she does not love her husband, they would have done so in the ways that they using to tell us how she feels about other people. They do not; therefore, she must love her husband. Heheheh...when I started this thread, I had no idea the discussion would escalate into something like this....Initially, we were all just speculating on how Myung-joo viewed marriage, taking into consideration her experiences, cultural background, her status, etc..... Kind of like how an experienced bettor selects a thoroughbred at a horse race....He doesn't decide just by looking at the horses on the morning of the race, but by also analyzing past performance charts, workout results, and other factors....Oftentimes, the bettor only wins 1 out of 3 or less, but I don't know of any better method.... We might not always be accurate in our analysis, only because we lack more information, so we try to fill in the blanks by speculating based on how we understand her character within the context of her culture, environment, and all the factors previously mentioned.... Yes, the writers have provided us with information to work on....We do know, for instance, that Myung-joo, was originally married to a Korean diplomat based in Singapore, but they divorced.....That shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, given the dismal record of marital longevity among the wealthy and powerful......I am not aware of the reasons behind the breakup, but I felt it was because she wanted to upgrade to someone a lot better, an idea which is entirely plausible......Besides, Myung-joo could have been part of an arranged marriage that first time, just like what happened to Yu-kyung...and MJ found out later on that she and hubby were simply incompatible...like this guy didn't have enough wealth and influence to suit her....heheheheheh We also looked at Myung-joo's relationship with her sister, and it seemed to me that seeing how her sister suffered being married to In-hwan may have subconsciously affected how Myung-joo viewed the romantic aspect of marriage. (Check Papa Bear's earlier post....) ....If anything, something like that could really have a strong impact.... It seemed to me that In-hwan's first wife was really in love with him, and desperately wanted to be loved in return, and she must have been instrumental in getting her father to invest heavily in the building of Joyland.... Myung-joo herself said that the Lee family immediately cut ties with In-hwan after learning that he had gotten back together with Soon-young...since she and everyone else knew that it was Soon-young that was In-hwan's true love and the primary source of all that pain suffered by Myung-joo's sister....The sister made the mistake of thinking that she could make In-hwan forget Soon-young....Myung-joo must have been in her late teens to early twenties when her sister died, so she was old enough to see and understand what had been going on..... To her credit, I recall Myung-joo saying that she would have accepted In-hwan's decision to remarry, but just NOT to that woman who made her sister suffer so much... a perfectly reasonable reaction I might add..... So I would have to say that while Myung-joo's experiences do not necessarily preclude her from ever loving a husband, I agree with Mac and Seoul Calibur that her feelings are not comparable to how the other wives in OMR love their husbands...... I don't think that is what Seoul Calibur meant....That phrase "women like her" can mean a number of things, and not just her being "wicked and one dimensional" which is not how I view Myung-joo's character..... Seoul Calibur's observations are correct about how seemingly self-righteous she is, and how she seems incapable of thinking she could be wrong about how she views Min-jae, for instance....Yeah, she is so consumed by her own pride and hatred and self-righteousness, and I say that not because I am "getting all worked up." How she thinks and acts are there for all to see....So even though we all agree about our observations, that does not mean we necessarily view Myung-joo as being "wicked and one dimensional...." |
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Post by TheBo on Jun 28, 2004 14:02:09 GMT -5
Having fun, "fellahs"? Bo |
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