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Post by ajk on May 14, 2017 0:05:02 GMT -5
Sorry for the delay but I need one more day on this one. Got behind on things and am just sitting down to watch it now. Apologies.
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Post by ajk on May 14, 2017 21:54:05 GMT -5
OK, sorry for the delay--did a bunch of yard work for mom today (Mother's Day here in the USA).
Certainly a better episode than the previous two. Got the focus back onto KJ and he took a big step forward in this one so it felt like progress, even though the episode covered only one day and Choe C hasn't died yet. And the Wola stuff was within reason, just mainly the one KJ/Wola scene, no issues with that.
The big event in this one was the assassination attempt. It had goods and bads:
--Good: They set it all up very effectively. The soldiers not able to enter with their swords but KJ being allowed to carry his because he was a regular, that was a believable premise for KJ being able to be the hero. And while you can certainly disagree with Choe U for going to the temple at all, at least he explained why he did it and we understood.
--Bad: Those assassins sneaking through the temple complex, they were about as stealthy as dancing elephants. It didn't work. Okay Mister Director, we see them there, we get it, we're not completely stupid.
--Good: The chaos outside the main entrance really added to the drama of the moment. People running around in confusion, and the lack of certainty about what was happening inside, it all felt very realistic. Smart writing to take us outside while everything was happening.
--Bad: I counted nineteen assassins in that circle around Choe U and Park Songbi. Nineteen swords versus one dagger. Why was that not finished in about five seconds? Historicals tend to give us mismatches like that, looking for spectacular triumphs, but they always backfire and the assassins end up looking like blithering idiots. Give us a small group of skilled assassins and a believable fight. Please?
--Good: Well I'll be darned, KJ climbed up onto a roof by--wait for it--grabbing the edge of the roof and pulling himself up. No forward flip or ridiculous gravity-defying acrobatics. Maybe it's just post-EOS hangover but that sure was nice to see.
--Bad: Very...very...very...very bad. Choe U and Park are fighting for their lives, the most dramatic moment of the episode--and then KJ runs in...and suddenly we get a pop song? Seriously? I cracked up laughing! It was so utterly ridiculous and inappropriate. Even if they insisted on using something contemporary, at least it should have been something with more edge and fire in the music. It was just awful--totally ruined the combat scene.
"We would just have been in the way if we had tried to help." Everybody was getting on Manjong and Manjun for leaving the scene, but they do have a point. What possible use would those two have been? I'm not defending them for scattering like scared little bunnies; just saying they probably would have done more harm than good by getting involved. The right thing to do would have been to escort them away under guard to minimize the chance of them being taken hostage or assassinated. The guards kinda blew that one. KJ had run inside, of course, but somebody else should have stepped up.
Now wait just a darned minute--Hyesim had never been to Heungwang Temple before? They call him a "living Buddha" but he's never been to the site of the Tripitaka, right there in the capital? (And remember, he was Choe U's tutor.) That one was awfully hard to swallow.
"As long as there is suffering, may I never attain enlightenment." Excellent scene; really liked it. Back when he was a monk we caught glimpses of KJ studying, but this scene in the library showed us he's a very smart guy. And you could feel the almost disbelief from everybody else, the way they were standing there listening to KJ answering Hyesim's questions so articulately. The KJ character took a big step forward in that one and it was well written. You just knew that people would be looking at him differently after that...
...which led to the scene with General Park at the end. Which was another very good scene. All of the generals and subordinates have been pretty much vanilla interchangeable parts but finally we got to see some depth from one of them. The respect he paid to KJ, wow it was stunning (but believable since it was in private) and KJ did basically save his life so good for him for the gesture. And being willing to listen to a subordinate who has intelligence, that's a sign of a good leader. The only thing I didn't like about that scene was Park basically forcing KJ to drink the alcohol. Not cool.
And the other good scene worth mentioning was KJ being summoned for a reward from Choe U and just like when Choe Hyang summoned him, he found exactly the right thing to say in a delicate situation. I was a little surprised at why he turned down the reward, only because the reward wasn't for just any ordinary service, he directly saved his master's life...but still it was impressive. And he got the gold anyway!
"I'm just the temple drunk." Hmm, maybe that explains the abbot's non-abbot behavior in the previous episode.
"You just say what I want to hear." Ha! Choe C firing bullets until the end.
"You can't get melons from dog dung." Well isn't that special. You wonder if he's actually tried it.
Yangbaek showed what a good person he was in this one. We saw the respect he has for KJ and his genuine happiness for KJ doing well (even when his subordinates were crabbing about it like jealous children). And earlier, at the end of the assassination attempt, that wry little smile at KJ, it was great--like You kicked their butts, well done! He's good people. The only one who might disagree with that right now is Chunsim...and you kinda had to feel for her, hearing that Wola caught his eye after he told Chunsim he had no interest in marrying. But let's not waste any more time going down that road; too much of it lately.
I didn't understand KJ's proposal. How is taking retainers hostage going to improve Choe U's position? Well at least we won't have to wait long to find out. It was very funny that two retainers showed up just as General Park was telling Choe U that KJ said it would happen. At least now things are back to looking forward to the next episode. Lots of good things happened in this one and much less of the weak stuff like we got in the previous two.
p.s. Is that the real Tripitaka they're filming those temple scenes with? It sure looks like it.
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Post by sageuk on May 14, 2017 22:28:28 GMT -5
I find myself wanting to touch the Tripitaka.
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Post by jewel on May 15, 2017 11:52:05 GMT -5
1) --Bad: Those assassins sneaking through the temple complex, they were about as stealthy as dancing elephants. It didn't work. Okay Mister Director, we see them there, we get it, we're not completely stupid. 2) --Bad: I counted nineteen assassins in that circle around Choe U and Park Songbi. Nineteen swords versus one dagger. Why was that not finished in about five seconds? Historicals tend to give us mismatches like that, looking for spectacular triumphs, but they always backfire and the assassins end up looking like blithering idiots. 3) --Bad: Very...very...very...very bad. Choe U and Park are fighting for their lives, the most dramatic moment of the episode--and then KJ runs in...and suddenly we get a pop song? Seriously? I cracked up laughing! It was so utterly ridiculous and inappropriate. 4) "We would just have been in the way if we had tried to help." Everybody was getting on Manjong and Manjun for leaving the scene, but they do have a point. What possible use would those two have been? I'm not defending them for scattering like scared little bunnies; just saying they probably would have done more harm than good by getting involved. 5) "As long as there is suffering, may I never attain enlightenment." Excellent scene; really liked it. Back when he was a monk we caught glimpses of KJ studying, but this scene in the library showed us he's a very smart guy. And you could feel the almost disbelief from everybody else, the way they were standing there listening to KJ answering Hyesim's questions so articulately. The KJ character took a big step forward in that one and it was well written. You just knew that people would be looking at him differently after that... 6) ...which led to the scene with General Park at the end. Which was another very good scene...The respect he paid to KJ, wow it was stunning (but believable since it was in private) and KJ did basically save his life so good for him for the gesture. And being willing to listen to a subordinate who has intelligence, that's a sign of a good leader. 7) The only thing I didn't like about that scene was Park basically forcing KJ to drink the alcohol. Not cool. 8) And the other good scene worth mentioning was KJ being summoned for a reward from Choe U and just like when Choe Hyang summoned him, he found exactly the right thing to say in a delicate situation. I was a little surprised at why he turned down the reward, only because the reward wasn't for just any ordinary service, he directly saved his master's life...but still it was impressive. And he got the gold anyway! 9) "You can't get melons from dog dung." Well isn't that special. You wonder if he's actually tried it. 10) Yangbaek showed what a good person he was in this one. We saw the respect he has for KJ and his genuine happiness for KJ doing well (even when his subordinates were crabbing about it like jealous children). And earlier, at the end of the assassination attempt, that wry little smile at KJ, it was great--like You kicked their butts, well done! He's good people. 11) The only one who might disagree with that right now is Chunsim...and you kinda had to feel for her, hearing that Wola caught his eye after he told Chunsim he had no interest in marrying. But let's not waste any more time going down that road; too much of it lately. 12) I didn't understand KJ's proposal. How is taking retainers hostage going to improve Choe U's position? Well at least we won't have to wait long to find out. 13) It was very funny that two retainers showed up just as General Park was telling Choe U that KJ said it would happen. This was one of the best episodes I've watched so far, if not the best in this drama. Really really loved every minute of it. I didn't want it to end and was really tempted to go onto the next episode but didn't. I'm starting to enjoy this one episode per week pace. I'm usually too impatient and always make fun of Hubby who watches (and reads) everything too slow, but maybe there's something to it. 1) My disbelief is that not one real monk looked at these fake monks walking around the temple and said to themselves, "Hey I've never seen these faces before." Don't they look at each other's face? I know it's a big place but still. 2) I found this very hard to swallow too. These kinds of scenes happen too often in K drama. These are trained assassins supposedly, yet a slew of them can't take out two unarmed (except for the little knife) men who are completely taken by surprise? I had to go with it but it did take away a little from the enjoyment of it all. 3) OMG! I didn't laugh, I cringed. And then got really mad. I was really upset because it really ruined the moment for me. I knew KJ was gonna burst onto the scene like some superhero. I knew that as soon as they allowed him to take his sword in. But the sweet moment was totally ruined by the darn pop song!! (Did I really say that??) No, no, no!!! 4) The two should have totally stayed. Nobody expected them to jump in and fight like KJ but they should've still stayed around until they knew their father was safe. They didn't have to leave the temple completely. No one blamed them for not jumping into the trap to save their father. But they did blame them for leaving the temple. If I had been the younger brother I would've stayed even if the older brother left. They're not joined at the hips. He knew it was wrong to leave and he should've stuck by what he felt was right. 5) I loved this scene - one of my faves in the whole drama. It was so exciting and you're right, Ajk, the look of awe and respect they all had on their faces as they watched and listened to KJ was just something. 6) When the general got down and bowed to KJ and said there's no general and no slave here I got tears in my eyes, it was such an emotional moment. It was just so touching to realize that someone finally sees what kind of a person KJ is. And for him to acknowledge that to KJ. 7) Okay, here there's a problem with the translation (yet again). The translation has KJ saying "I don't drink." Well we know that's not true cuz we've seen him drink before. What he says is he "can't" drink. What he's really saying is that he being a slave doesn't dare to drink at the same table as the general. He is being humble. And the general knowing this, urges him to drink because he wants to show KJ that he thinks of them as equal. Please don't read this scene as one man making another man drink when he doesn't want to. 8) Was I surprised when KJ refused the gold for saving Choe U? I don't know. But I do know as soon as he did I felt he did the right thing. First I didn't like the way Choe U tossed the bag of gold to KJ. I know KJ is a slave but something didn't feel right about that. And when KJ said he's not a dog begging for scraps I so applauded him for saying that. It was obvious Choe U's respect for him rose by leaps and bounds when KJ refused the gold. And when he changed his offering from reward to a gift I felt he understood KJ a little better. Tho he still has very far to go in really understanding what kind of a human being KJ is. 9) I was actually wondering this myself. I bet you could. Anyway, doesn't the Overlord own a decent bed? Is he glued to that uncomfortable bench?? Even as he's breathing his last breath, no respectable deathbed for him? 10) Yes I saw that smile and it made me like him a little better since that sword-swinging scene. BUT. Did you notice his face when Choe U tells one of his retainers to bring KJ to his quarters later on? He didn't look completely happy. And the way the camera stayed in his face made me think we're suppose to read something into it. I can't completely trust Yang Baek anymore. Yes he SAYS he's happy for KJ but it's almost like he's sitting on a fence and could turn on KJ any second. When he tells KJ "Too much good fortune breeds jealousy," I couldn't help thinking he may be talking about himself. Tho not manifested yet. 11) I still find it hard to believe that a man like Choe Yang Baek could fall for a girl like Wola when all she ever did in front of him was blubber. But anyway I'm thinking Wola's just got herself a formidable enemy for life right there, regarding Chunsim I mean. 12) My take was that by taking a hostage they bring the action to their own territory which is an advantage. Also they'll have some kind of power to play with when Choe U ends up going to see his father. That's all I got. 13) This scene was so exciting. Just when Choe U says they're not going to send anyone again, the announcement that indeed KJ was right on the money. Very fun. Really loved this episode.
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Post by ajk on May 15, 2017 17:40:58 GMT -5
Thanks for the translation on that drink business; much appreciated. That does make sense. I wasn't sure if it was an on-duty thing or what, but in that context I can see why Park would nudge him. So no problem after all.
Choe U tends to be very distant and authoritarian towards people below him. It bugged me for a while but he hasn't treated anyone badly so I've been letting it go; just his leadership style. Right after KJ squashed the assassination attempt, Choe looked at him with a weird glare and didn't even say anything (um, like, "Thank you"?). He did reward KJ that evening; he's just not a touchy-feely kind of leader. Yes it might benefit him to be a little less distant.
So jewel can I assume you'll be starting the Wola fan club? President-for-life?
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Post by jewel on May 15, 2017 19:31:16 GMT -5
1) Right after KJ squashed the assassination attempt, Choe looked at him with a weird glare 2) So jewel can I assume you'll be starting the Wola fan club? President-for-life? 1) For me it didn't seem like a weird glare. More like a cool re-assessment of KJ, that KJ could be a much more valuable specimen than he had previously thought. 2) Am I being too mean about Wola? Should I stop? (But I really do find her repulsive. Maybe I'm just jealous she's gonna marry KJ )
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Post by ajk on May 16, 2017 2:02:26 GMT -5
Not at all--speak your mind, by all means. I've become morbidly fascinated by the visceral reaction she's stirring up in people. And actually sageuk might want to run for president too, so maybe I spoke too soon!
That look Choe U gave KJ, there's a meta-story behind it. The actor playing Choe U, the first historical I saw him in was Dae Jo Young. He played the Khitan general Li Kaigu, who was a frontier leader in real history. In the series he wasn't really the greatest character, and on top of that the actor was miscast. Whenever Li was angry or annoyed the actor would give this sneering look and added a lip-curl thing that became a running joke here on the DJY board. The look that KJ got in this episode, it reminded me of that.
For a long time I figured the guy was just a lousy actor until I saw him play King Gongmin in Shin Don and he gave one of the three best performances I've ever seen in a historical. Then I realized he was simply miscast trying to play a rugged tribal leader. Jury's still out on him in this one...not sure if Choe U is a great fit for him either, but it's way too early to tell. Anyway, for anybody who watched DJY that look Choe U gave KJ will trigger a flashback, guarantee it.
(Hey any of you guys remember the dreaded Li Kaigu lip curl?)
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Post by MTR on May 16, 2017 12:04:50 GMT -5
It did trigger a flash back i half expected him to say "Damn you Dae Jo Yooooooooooung !".
I have no jealousy what so ever, i just cant stand Wola.
I love how all these trained assassins just circle the victim and just stare at the intended,if only Julius Caesar had assassins like that, he would have had a long healthy life.
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Post by jewel on May 17, 2017 16:19:07 GMT -5
1) I have no jealousy what so ever, i just cant stand Wola. 2) I love how all these trained assassins just circle the victim and just stare at the intended,if only Julius Caesar had assassins like that, he would have had a long healthy life. 1) I hope you don't think I'm really jealous of that wet blanket. 2) lol
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Post by ajk on May 17, 2017 17:17:13 GMT -5
I love how all these trained assassins just circle the victim and just stare at the intended,if only Julius Caesar had assassins like that, he would have had a long healthy life. Yeah cause they never charge at their target--they just keep Roman around him.
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Post by mugwump on May 17, 2017 21:06:22 GMT -5
Not at all--speak your mind, by all means. I've become morbidly fascinated by the visceral reaction she's stirring up in people. And actually sageuk might want to run for president too, so maybe I spoke too soon! That look Choe U gave KJ, there's a meta-story behind it. The actor playing Choe U, the first historical I saw him in was Dae Jo Young. He played the Khitan general Li Kaigu, who was a frontier leader in real history. In the series he wasn't really the greatest character, and on top of that the actor was miscast. Whenever Li was angry or annoyed the actor would give this sneering look and added a lip-curl thing that became a running joke here on the DJY board. The look that KJ got in this episode, it reminded me of that. For a long time I figured the guy was just a lousy actor until I saw him play King Gongmin in Shin Don and he gave one of the three best performances I've ever seen in a historical. Then I realized he was simply miscast trying to play a rugged tribal leader. Jury's still out on him in this one...not sure if Choe U is a great fit for him either, but it's way too early to tell. Anyway, for anybody who watched DJY that look Choe U gave KJ will trigger a flashback, guarantee it. (Hey any of you guys remember the dreaded Li Kaigu lip curl?) Remember? Do I ever. And when you start the Wola Anti-Fan Club, count me in.
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Post by ajk on May 18, 2017 12:24:36 GMT -5
Ha! I knew you would, mugwump. It really did get annoying after a while.
You're another Wola hater? For the life of me I can't imagine what she's going to do in the rest of the series to make so many people dislike her so much. Maybe she kills KJ at the end after henpecking him for decades? Never mind, don't tell me...this has become another thing I'm looking forward to in the rest of the series.
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Post by mugwump on May 18, 2017 17:29:38 GMT -5
And I don't like the daughter either (can't remember her name). If there are going to be love interests, I wish the writers would make them more interesting.
Relating to the daughter, I don't know if this has been mentioned in this thread. I know it was in the original one. For those of you who watched Yi Soon Shin, the actress is the same one who played Mijin, YSS's love interest in the early episodes. She had quite a bit of plastic surgery between gigs. Did anyone recognize her?
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Post by sageuk on May 18, 2017 20:42:27 GMT -5
I didn't recognize her at first glance. I initially thought they were different people who just happened to have the same name
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Post by jewel on May 21, 2017 16:20:55 GMT -5
Maybe she kills KJ at the end after henpecking him for decades? Killing and henpecking take some spirit. If Wola were able to do either of these maybe we wouldn't hate her so much.
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