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Post by ajk on Mar 4, 2017 21:01:10 GMT -5
I guess the best thing so far is what we're NOT getting. No cheesy pop ballads; no ridiculous overchoreographed fight scenes; no cartoon physics. It's a straightforward story without any of the gimmicks or fusion stuff that can screw up a series. Sure hope it keeps up that way. And we did get a nice narrative explanation of the factionalism that emerged around Choe Chungheon's two sons. That's a promising sign too, presenting the real historical background to us and even using pictures of the actors to diagram it. Very encouraging.
That's the good news. The bad news so far is the way they're hard-selling the Musang/Wola thing. It gives off kind of an EOS vibe--the weak part of EOS with the drawn-out Jang Bogo/Jung-hwa relationship. I hope this doesn't suck the life out of the series like what happened in the first half of EOS. But it's very early so not worth worrying about yet.
Ugh, we did get the flashback of those two as kids just like I suggested...but they were the same age. So much for that idea. Several other age-related things have distracted me too. Some of it is that Jong Bo Suk, who plays Choe U, he just looks a lot younger than he is. He was 50 when the series was made and sure doesn't look it. Choe Hyang, the actor playing him is five years older than Jong, and that guy certainly doesn't look old for 55 at all, but like I said before it's hard to see him as the younger brother of the two. Same with the woman playing Choe U's wife; she's seven years younger than Jong and looks perfectly fine for her age but he looks too young for her (which wouldn't have been at all impossible in those days so I'm not gonna dispute it, just saying). Jong just has good genes I guess.
And also that female attendant who's flirting so obviously with that soldier Choe Yangbaek, isn't she kinda young for him? Apologies, I'll try not to harp on this age business from now on.
But all that aside, the guys playing the two Choe brothers have both done excellent work in other historicals we've watched here and I'm really looking forward to them as rivals in these roles.
At one point there was an unmistakable Jesus reference, with Musang hanging there and two other prisoners on his sides hanging slightly lower. We've seen that before in other series. They shouldn't do that. Don't like it at all.
Hearing Choe Chungheon complain about the monks not paying taxes, that's a timeless issue, isn't it.
Kind of funny how Choe U's daughter gets whatever she wants from daddy.
p.s. Wow, a flashback within a flashback--you don't see that often. And it worked well too.
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Post by jewel on Mar 4, 2017 21:22:20 GMT -5
1) Ugh, we did get the flashback of those two as kids just like I suggested...but they were the same age. 2) And also that female attendant who's flirting so obviously with that soldier Choe Yangbaek, isn't she kinda young for him? 3) At one point there was an unmistakable Jesus reference, with Musang hanging there and two other prisoners on his sides hanging slightly lower. 1) I think the girl was much younger than Musang. The flashback went pretty fast but I'm pretty sure when he met Wola he was an older version to the boy who got his head shaved. I believe she was much younger. And also like I mentioned before, even when they grew up together and are very close she maintains the formal language with him which proves she is supposed to be much younger than him. 2) She is quite younger than him, I agree. But she does have good taste in picking out a man to have crush on - he seems like a decent guy the way he answered Musang when he asked about Wola. 3) Yes, I totally saw that too. I was very curious to know if the thief that was skeptical of Jesus was on his right or left but couldn't find out. You know, because the guy on Musang's right sells him out (not that I blame him or anything). You say you don't like the Musang/Wola thing but I like it. It's so much more believable that the two in EOS. First of all, they grew up together and have been together all this time with him taking care of her and to suddenly be ripped apart like that - the pain is very believable for me. The two in EOS, on the other hand, had barely said two words to each other when they were separated. And the ending of episode 2 really brought tears to my eyes, it was so sad and moving.
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Post by truth on Mar 4, 2017 22:24:40 GMT -5
I guess the best thing so far is what we're NOT getting. No cheesy pop ballads; no ridiculous overchoreographed fight scenes; no cartoon physics. Unfortunately, you will get all of them later on lol. It's a straightforward story without any of the gimmicks or fusion stuff that can screw up a series. It still has fusion elements, as expected from a MBC drama. The fictional romance part is obviously fusion. Costumes and armors are fusion. The real Kim Jun had never been a monk therefore he was never called "Musang."
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Post by ajk on Mar 4, 2017 23:19:58 GMT -5
He was never a monk? Aw geez, then why write it that way? Ugh. Well I hope they get past it quickly then.
How far off are the armors? Totally ridiculous?
jewel it's not that I don't like their story--I don't have any problem with it, at least not yet--I just don't want it to take over the series too much. So far they both seem likeable enough and you can certainly understand their caring about each other so much. I just would hate to see the real history getting shoved aside too much by their fictional story.
You made a good point about that soldier talking to Musang. It surprised me too, that he was so decent about giving Musang so much information.
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Post by ajk on Mar 4, 2017 23:36:33 GMT -5
Wait, I answered my own question. sageuk posted this information in the original GOW thread: According to Koryo dogyung, generals and officers wore black iron and/or leather armor. They would also leave their helmets hanging behind them. Also, chainmail wasn't used until during the Mongol occupation of Koryo, at least I think.
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Post by truth on Mar 4, 2017 23:54:51 GMT -5
He was never a monk? Aw geez, then why write it that way? Ugh. Well I hope they get past it quickly then. How far off are the armors? Totally ridiculous? It's a MBC drama, what do you expect? I posted that he wasn't a monk on Ep1 thread as well. Just look at how colorful the armors are. Jeong Dojeon's version is the most accurate one.
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Post by ajk on Mar 5, 2017 17:16:08 GMT -5
Forgive me, I spaced out on that, yes you did.
Still clinging to Shin Don, that one didn't change anybody's background so radically...but I suppose there's always an exception, isn't there. Well the monk thing may not be with us much longer anyways; there's a tournament coming up and I think we can all guess what's gonna happen with that.
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episode 2
Mar 6, 2017 15:05:15 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by truth on Mar 6, 2017 15:05:15 GMT -5
Forgive me, I spaced out on that, yes you did. there's a tournament coming up and I think we can all guess what's gonna happen with that. The tournament, of course, is also fiction. The game they play in the tournament isn't fiction, but they turned a mere sport into some kind of Sparta gladiator stuff.
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Post by mugwump on Mar 7, 2017 19:21:42 GMT -5
Aaaah, the tournament. Fasten your seatbelts.
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Post by jewel on Mar 8, 2017 21:21:56 GMT -5
You guys aren't spoiling me, are you? I haven't heard anything about a tournament...
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Post by ajk on Mar 9, 2017 21:30:14 GMT -5
No there was a brief mention of a tournament once or twice. At one point a couple of the military guys were considering whether or not to postpone it in light of the unrest. It shot by real quickly so it was easy to miss.
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Post by truth on Mar 10, 2017 1:14:18 GMT -5
This tournament never happened by the way, not the game itself, but the particular tournament that's about to take place in the drama.
There were actual Gyeokgu tournaments, but Kim Jun never participated in this game, I mean he might have, but it's not recorded as far as we know. And even if he did, it wasn't a Spartan gladiator show as shown in the drama, but a regular sport which is like the Korean equivalent of polo.
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Post by ajk on Mar 10, 2017 1:35:03 GMT -5
Let's not get ahead of ourselves, we haven't seen any of the tournament in Episode 2, it's just a plan. We don't know what it will be or if it will even happen.
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Post by sageuk on Mar 12, 2017 18:40:11 GMT -5
Wait, I answered my own question. sageuk posted this information in the original GOW thread: According to Koryo dogyung, generals and officers wore black iron and/or leather armor. They would also leave their helmets hanging behind them. Also, chainmail wasn't used until during the Mongol occupation of Koryo, at least I think. Y'know, I've been looking at abother version of Korean text again and there seem to have been different translations from the original Chinese text. That the armor was composed of black leather and iron is definite though. That being said, there is something bothering me. This is the description of the general of the Six Guard Units: 상육군좌우위의 장군은 검은 가죽으로 된 갑옷[介胄烏革]을 입는데 철을 사이에 두어 만들고, 무늬 있는 비단을 꿰매어 서로 잇대도록 만들었다. 허리 아래로는 10여 개의 대(帶)를 늘어뜨렸고 오색(五色)의 수놓은 꽃으로 장식하였다. 왼쪽에는 활과 칼을 차고 두 손을 맞잡고 몸을 굽힌 채로 궁궐 문[殿門] 위에 서 있다. 다만 조서(詔書)를 받거나 표(表)를 올리는 날이면 회경전(會慶殿) 중문(中門)에는 6명이 서고 양쪽 편문(偏門)에는 4명씩 서는데 우뚝한 게 마치 산과 같으며 흙이나 나무로 만든 인형[土木偶]과 같다. 공손하고 엄숙한 모습은 높이 평가할 만하다. The bolded part confuses me. It has the words "between." I'm not sure if it means "iron armor between the leather" or "iron on the center of the leather." It also says that "patterned silk tied to each other." Then, down the waist is tied with a 10 yeo something (I think its a measuring unit, not sure) belt embroidered with flowers of five colors. Generals also carry swords and bow and arrows on their left. My translation is not certain. There are others better qualified. I actually tried showing this to a Korean born friend and she had a hard time understanding it because there were old fashioned words there.
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Post by sageuk on Mar 21, 2017 1:10:05 GMT -5
Whaddya know, it turns out there's a english translation for Goryeo Dogyeong. Came out nearly a year ago. Purchased a kinfle version of it. www.amazon.com/Chinese-Traveler-Medieval-Korea-Illustrated-ebook/dp/B01IR7BLPK/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1490073469&sr=1-1&keywords=xu+jingBy Sem Vermeersch, a Buddhism professor at Seoul National University. Now here is what this translated version says about the armor for the generals: "The Supreme Generals of the Six Divisions and Left-Right Divison are protected by armor made of black leather in which iron [buttons]* are inserted. Patterned brocade is used to join the parts together so they form a seamless whole. From the waist down hang more than ten straps, each decorated with five colored embroidered flowers." *So it turns out "iron between" meant buttons? If armor was predominately leather back then, it probably explains why its not certain as to what Goryeo armor looks and why its so rare to find (the ones that are found are metal). When they say patterned brocade to join the parts together, I wonder if they're talking about this thing on both sides of his waist:
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